Weak Primer Strikes

www.prussia.us · 04-13-2011, 08:57 PM

Hey Guys,
The patient is a Mauser P08 mismatch "shooter," not being a
P08 expert I will note for compatibility isues what parts match; frame matching lower, with a non-matching Mauser upper that, and matching Mauser toggle.

Okay I am getting weak primer strikes- 2/3 of time ammo does not fire, ammo works fine when manually ejected and reloaded into the mag and cycled a second time.

Trouble shooting info:
Ammo-new Winchester 9mm,
feeds fine,
toggle assembly all matching but not matching to upper (barrel original to barrel extension).
I removed some oil from the firing pin/plunger/spring area and the situation improved to maybe 2 non firing weak primer hits to every 1 bullet firing fine.

Could this be?:
Worn firing pin, bad spring?????

THANKS

nukem556 · 04-13-2011, 09:09 PM

You're on the right track....most likely a weak firing pin spring, possible but less likely, the pin itself....also make sure the inside of the breechblock is clean of crud that could slow or cushion the pin strike......mismatched parts probably aren't a concern.....lots of mismatched shooter Lugers out there are banging away just fine

mrerick · 04-13-2011, 09:10 PM

It would be worth first checking the firing pin spring, and the engagement between the spring guide and the rear of the bolt.

I've seen incorrect springs substituted for the firing pin spring. Wolff has replacements and full spring sets.

Marc

FNorm · 04-14-2011, 09:11 AM

Sounds like you already did but... When I clean a piece new to me, I almost always find a load of crud inside the breech block AND inside the firing pin. Some I have to soak for awhile. While not your current problem another area to check is under the extractor. You'll need an .060 push pin to get the extractor pin out. Alway a load there...

FN

John Sabato · 04-14-2011, 09:13 AM

You should also check firing pin protrusion... if the pin is not matched to the breechblock, it may be too short or fall outside of the acceptable tolerances...

Here is an extract from the original Luger Blueprint for the Firing Pin. If you, or anyone else would like a full copy of the blueprints (which are a fascinating study in themselves) to check measurements on your Luger, you can order the CD in the For Sale forum. (Yes! another shameless plug for the Blueprint CD!

)

newluger · 04-14-2011, 03:47 PM

I save some of my spent or fired casings. I tear off a small piece of masking tape and put it over spent primer. I then put the spent casing in the breechblock, close the bolt and pull the trigger. I then eject the spent casing and examine the masking tape. It pretty well tells me if the firing pin is hitting the primer. The next time I am in a stationary store, I want to pick up a package of the small adhesive paper dots. I'm sure they will work better than the masking tape.

Peter

John Sabato · 04-14-2011, 06:08 PM

If cycling a misfired round through the loading sequence gets it to fire the second time around then there is do doubt that the firing pis is striking the case primer. The issue that your masking tape test does not address is whether or not the momentum and depth of the strike is adequate.

The only way you can adequately test this would be to trade firing pins with a reliable shooter Luger and see if it makes a difference. If it does not, then try swapping the firing pin springs and test.

If the gun is now reliable then you have found your problem. The problem will likely also appear in the gun you borrowed the parts from. Let's us know how it goes when you test.

www.prussia.us · 04-14-2011, 07:53 PM

THANKS

That is some great advice, I really appreciate it. I will act on the suggestions then in a few weeks be able to test fire and report back.

Freischütz · 04-15-2011, 09:55 PM

I'd recommend cleaning the inside of the breach block and firing pin too. My guns just go from home to the range and back. I've been amazed by what built up in the breach block.

www.prussia.us · 05-19-2011, 03:04 PM

AGAIN-THANK YOU TO ALL

IT WORKS!!!!!

Once I pulled the plunger/firing pin, and spring out, I found a hefty supply of heavy oil. then it was cleaned, taken to the range, and functioned flawlessly.

For the record, the firing pin is non-matching to the toggle train-but looks new, the seller, RGuns, was very helpful as well.

04-13-2011, 08:57 PM	#1
www.prussia.us User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: NY Posts: 40 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Weak Primer Strikes Hey Guys, The patient is a Mauser P08 mismatch "shooter," not being a P08 expert I will note for compatibility isues what parts match; frame matching lower, with a non-matching Mauser upper that, and matching Mauser toggle. Okay I am getting weak primer strikes- 2/3 of time ammo does not fire, ammo works fine when manually ejected and reloaded into the mag and cycled a second time. Trouble shooting info: Ammo-new Winchester 9mm, feeds fine, toggle assembly all matching but not matching to upper (barrel original to barrel extension). I removed some oil from the firing pin/plunger/spring area and the situation improved to maybe 2 non firing weak primer hits to every 1 bullet firing fine. Could this be?: Worn firing pin, bad spring????? THANKS

04-13-2011, 09:10 PM	#3
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	It would be worth first checking the firing pin spring, and the engagement between the spring guide and the rear of the bolt. I've seen incorrect springs substituted for the firing pin spring. Wolff has replacements and full spring sets. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

04-14-2011, 09:13 AM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	You should also check firing pin protrusion... if the pin is not matched to the breechblock, it may be too short or fall outside of the acceptable tolerances... Here is an extract from the original Luger Blueprint for the Firing Pin. If you, or anyone else would like a full copy of the blueprints (which are a fascinating study in themselves) to check measurements on your Luger, you can order the CD in the For Sale forum. (Yes! another shameless plug for the Blueprint CD! ) Attached Thumbnails __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-14-2011, 06:08 PM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	If cycling a misfired round through the loading sequence gets it to fire the second time around then there is do doubt that the firing pis is striking the case primer. The issue that your masking tape test does not address is whether or not the momentum and depth of the strike is adequate. The only way you can adequately test this would be to trade firing pins with a reliable shooter Luger and see if it makes a difference. If it does not, then try swapping the firing pin springs and test. If the gun is now reliable then you have found your problem. The problem will likely also appear in the gun you borrowed the parts from. Let's us know how it goes when you test. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-13-2011, 09:09 PM	#2
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	You're on the right track....most likely a weak firing pin spring, possible but less likely, the pin itself....also make sure the inside of the breechblock is clean of crud that could slow or cushion the pin strike......mismatched parts probably aren't a concern.....lots of mismatched shooter Lugers out there are banging away just fine

04-14-2011, 09:11 AM	#4
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Sounds like you already did but... When I clean a piece new to me, I almost always find a load of crud inside the breech block AND inside the firing pin. Some I have to soak for awhile. While not your current problem another area to check is under the extractor. You'll need an .060 push pin to get the extractor pin out. Alway a load there... FN

04-14-2011, 03:47 PM	#6
newluger User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Franklin Tennessee Posts: 119 Thanks: 22 Thanked 10 Times in 7 Posts	I save some of my spent or fired casings. I tear off a small piece of masking tape and put it over spent primer. I then put the spent casing in the breechblock, close the bolt and pull the trigger. I then eject the spent casing and examine the masking tape. It pretty well tells me if the firing pin is hitting the primer. The next time I am in a stationary store, I want to pick up a package of the small adhesive paper dots. I'm sure they will work better than the masking tape. Peter

04-14-2011, 07:53 PM	#8
www.prussia.us User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: NY Posts: 40 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	THANKS That is some great advice, I really appreciate it. I will act on the suggestions then in a few weeks be able to test fire and report back.

04-15-2011, 09:55 PM	#9
Freischütz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Eastern Washington Posts: 125 Thanks: 9 Thanked 26 Times in 19 Posts	I'd recommend cleaning the inside of the breach block and firing pin too. My guns just go from home to the range and back. I've been amazed by what built up in the breach block.

05-19-2011, 03:04 PM	#10
www.prussia.us User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: NY Posts: 40 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	AGAIN-THANK YOU TO ALL IT WORKS!!!!! Once I pulled the plunger/firing pin, and spring out, I found a hefty supply of heavy oil. then it was cleaned, taken to the range, and functioned flawlessly. For the record, the firing pin is non-matching to the toggle train-but looks new, the seller, RGuns, was very helpful as well.