Gap

lugernorway1936 · 02-01-2011, 01:14 PM

My Luger has a "gap" between chamber and breechblock.
Is this normal?
It also has a problem when I close the breechblock fast. It fires an often 2 or 3 shots on automatic.
Like a locking problem.

alanint · 02-01-2011, 01:43 PM

The gap on your pistol, while a bit wide, does not seem excessive. Your sear is the root of the multiple discharges. There may be debris or congealed lubricants in it. Does the little plunger move freely? Is there any dirt or debris surrounding it?

lugernorway1936 · 02-03-2011, 10:38 AM

I have disassembled the pistol and there is not any dirt on it. What little plunger do you mean?
Here are some more pictures.

Neil Young · 02-03-2011, 10:56 AM

It's the shiny little thing in your 4th photo down, just to the left of the serial number. It should depress easily and then rebound. By depressed, I mean axially, into the sear bar.

Neil

lugernorway1936 · 02-04-2011, 12:07 PM

The little plunger moves great into the bar and pops out fast. What other problems can cause this?
I have repaired many pistols and rifles, but a luger is totally different.

alanint · 02-04-2011, 12:16 PM

Have you removed the entire sear assembly from the upper frame and gone over it carefully? Check for debris or burrs that might hang it up or gunk in the spring.

A remote but possible cause for multiple discharges would be weak ammo, which manages to fire and eject but does not reset the sear.

That's all that occurs to me without having the gun to examine.

lugernorway1936 · 02-04-2011, 01:11 PM

What is the best bullet weight and powder weight to use in a luger? To make sure it fires and chambers again.

alanint · 02-04-2011, 02:11 PM

Most people here on the site recommend Winchester White box 115gr. ammo for their shooters

Also check for as weak or bent sear spring! This spring is a flat piece of spring steel which slides into a recess in the upper frasme behind the sear. It must be removed before the sear can be removed from the upper receiver

lugernorway1936 · 02-05-2011, 05:18 AM

I will check the spring and sear. Remove everything and clean it. Then post some pictures of it.

Regarding ammo we do not have the same range as you have in the US.
Never seen a Winchester White box, but in my handload I use 115gr FMJ bullet.
I will ask in my local gunshop.

Vlim · 02-05-2011, 01:12 PM

Hi,

In Europe the best (and most easily obtainable) ammunition is Sellier & Bellot standard 124gr. FMJ. The S&B 145gr Subsonic is a good alternative as well.

lugernorway1936 · 02-07-2011, 01:35 PM

I have taken the sear apart and clean everything. But I do not know if the spring is bend right

lugernorway1936 · 02-09-2011, 08:50 AM

I have taken everything apart and cleaned it, but still no luck.
Must I consider new parts?

mrerick · 02-09-2011, 09:05 AM

Hi Andreas, and a belated welcome to the forum!

The full auto failure is most likely related to either a failure of the disconnector (the small roung plunger at the end of the sear bar), or a problem in the engagement of the sear and the firing pin.

What is the condition of the axle pins that hold the toggle train together? Do the pins fit snugly into their mounting holes. This fit is very exact. There should not be looseness in the toggle train. It should not move forward/backward when in battery.

It would be useful to see the sear engagement surfaces closeup (the firing pin and the sear). It's too dark to see the sear surface in your photographs.

If it's useful, I found an excellent animation of the Luger action on YouTube yesterday:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEdRo0g-Mp8

Marc

lugernorway1936 · 02-09-2011, 11:58 AM

I belive it is a problem with the sear and the connection to the firing pin. Sometimes it works and sometimes not.
I have also thought that it might be the link from trigger to sear bar.??
The axle pins fit perfect.

I will take pictures of what you ask and post them tomorrow.

I think it is strange that I have to buy parts for my german pistol from USA. Europe is not the place to be a gun owner.

I had tre german colleagues visit last year and they had newer seen a Luger close up. Only on movies.

mrerick · 02-09-2011, 12:05 PM

The angles and the surfaces of the sear to firing pin faces are fairly critical. Not sure of the mechanism that would cause full auto firing, and how it might relate to them, but it could be part of the problem.

Don't try and bend the trigger lever that is mounted within the trigger plate. It's hardened steel and would as soon break as bend. It would be useful to see it in detail as well.

I expect that it's possible that the fit of the trigger plate may be involved. How flat and tight does the plate fit against the receiver?

There are probably good sources for Luger parts in Europe. I'm familiar with Tom Heller since I've dealt with him over here. Since many of us on this forum are from the USA, we probably think of Tom first.

Marc

lugernorway1936 · 02-11-2011, 10:51 AM

Here are some pictures of the sear and firing pin.
It looks ok to me.??

The trigger plate fits tight to the receiver.

mrerick · 02-11-2011, 07:59 PM

It may be the photo angles, but the sear doesn't look squared to me, and it looks like it may be filed shorter than normal.

Can someone who has worked on Luger trigger/sear adjustment comment?

Marc

02-01-2011, 01:14 PM	#1
lugernorway1936 User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Bergen, Norway Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Gap My Luger has a "gap" between chamber and breechblock. Is this normal? It also has a problem when I close the breechblock fast. It fires an often 2 or 3 shots on automatic. Like a locking problem. Attached Thumbnails

02-03-2011, 10:38 AM	#3
lugernorway1936 User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Bergen, Norway Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have disassembled the pistol and there is not any dirt on it. What little plunger do you mean? Here are some more pictures. Attached Thumbnails

02-03-2011, 10:56 AM	#4
Neil Young Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Scottsboro, Alabama Posts: 548 Thanks: 566 Thanked 443 Times in 168 Posts	It's the shiny little thing in your 4th photo down, just to the left of the serial number. It should depress easily and then rebound. By depressed, I mean axially, into the sear bar. Neil __________________ Neil The hurrier I go the behinder I get. Sometimes it takes me all day to get nothing done.

02-07-2011, 01:35 PM	#11
lugernorway1936 User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Bergen, Norway Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have taken the sear apart and clean everything. But I do not know if the spring is bend right Attached Thumbnails

02-09-2011, 09:05 AM	#13
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Hi Andreas, and a belated welcome to the forum! The full auto failure is most likely related to either a failure of the disconnector (the small roung plunger at the end of the sear bar), or a problem in the engagement of the sear and the firing pin. What is the condition of the axle pins that hold the toggle train together? Do the pins fit snugly into their mounting holes. This fit is very exact. There should not be looseness in the toggle train. It should not move forward/backward when in battery. It would be useful to see the sear engagement surfaces closeup (the firing pin and the sear). It's too dark to see the sear surface in your photographs. If it's useful, I found an excellent animation of the Luger action on YouTube yesterday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEdRo0g-Mp8 Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

02-01-2011, 01:43 PM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	The gap on your pistol, while a bit wide, does not seem excessive. Your sear is the root of the multiple discharges. There may be debris or congealed lubricants in it. Does the little plunger move freely? Is there any dirt or debris surrounding it?

02-04-2011, 12:07 PM	#5
lugernorway1936 User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Bergen, Norway Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The little plunger moves great into the bar and pops out fast. What other problems can cause this? I have repaired many pistols and rifles, but a luger is totally different.

02-04-2011, 12:16 PM	#6
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Have you removed the entire sear assembly from the upper frame and gone over it carefully? Check for debris or burrs that might hang it up or gunk in the spring. A remote but possible cause for multiple discharges would be weak ammo, which manages to fire and eject but does not reset the sear. That's all that occurs to me without having the gun to examine.

02-04-2011, 01:11 PM	#7
lugernorway1936 User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Bergen, Norway Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	What is the best bullet weight and powder weight to use in a luger? To make sure it fires and chambers again.

02-04-2011, 02:11 PM	#8
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Most people here on the site recommend Winchester White box 115gr. ammo for their shooters Also check for as weak or bent sear spring! This spring is a flat piece of spring steel which slides into a recess in the upper frasme behind the sear. It must be removed before the sear can be removed from the upper receiver

02-05-2011, 05:18 AM	#9
lugernorway1936 User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Bergen, Norway Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I will check the spring and sear. Remove everything and clean it. Then post some pictures of it. Regarding ammo we do not have the same range as you have in the US. Never seen a Winchester White box, but in my handload I use 115gr FMJ bullet. I will ask in my local gunshop.

02-05-2011, 01:12 PM	#10
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi, In Europe the best (and most easily obtainable) ammunition is Sellier & Bellot standard 124gr. FMJ. The S&B 145gr Subsonic is a good alternative as well.

02-09-2011, 08:50 AM	#12
lugernorway1936 User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Bergen, Norway Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have taken everything apart and cleaned it, but still no luck. Must I consider new parts?

02-09-2011, 11:58 AM	#14
lugernorway1936 User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Bergen, Norway Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I belive it is a problem with the sear and the connection to the firing pin. Sometimes it works and sometimes not. I have also thought that it might be the link from trigger to sear bar.?? The axle pins fit perfect. I will take pictures of what you ask and post them tomorrow. I think it is strange that I have to buy parts for my german pistol from USA. Europe is not the place to be a gun owner. I had tre german colleagues visit last year and they had newer seen a Luger close up. Only on movies.

02-09-2011, 12:05 PM	#15
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	The angles and the surfaces of the sear to firing pin faces are fairly critical. Not sure of the mechanism that would cause full auto firing, and how it might relate to them, but it could be part of the problem. Don't try and bend the trigger lever that is mounted within the trigger plate. It's hardened steel and would as soon break as bend. It would be useful to see it in detail as well. I expect that it's possible that the fit of the trigger plate may be involved. How flat and tight does the plate fit against the receiver? There are probably good sources for Luger parts in Europe. I'm familiar with Tom Heller since I've dealt with him over here. Since many of us on this forum are from the USA, we probably think of Tom first. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

02-11-2011, 10:51 AM	#16
lugernorway1936 User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Bergen, Norway Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here are some pictures of the sear and firing pin. It looks ok to me.?? The trigger plate fits tight to the receiver. Attached Thumbnails

02-11-2011, 07:59 PM	#17
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	It may be the photo angles, but the sear doesn't look squared to me, and it looks like it may be filed shorter than normal. Can someone who has worked on Luger trigger/sear adjustment comment? Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.