GERMANY and MADE IN GERMANY Marking

Thor · 11-01-2010, 03:42 PM

Just curious what I can find out about this stamping. It appears an Export stamp for commercial Lugers destined to be sold in the USA. My question is was the stamp applied after the gun was blued or reblued. I would assume it would show up in the white if on a WWI rebarrel model, but what about new commercial Lugers, would the stamp be applied after the gun was rust blued? I have not thought to really examine this marking before on examples with original finish. Thanks for any help on this marking.

MFC · 11-02-2010, 07:35 PM

Thor,
I have seen the GERMANY stamp on the front of the frame under the S#, with and without halos, on what I beleived to be Lugers with original finish. All of the larger GERMANY and MADE IN GERMANY stamps that are found on other various places all showed halos. I hope that others more knowledgeable than me will chime in.

sheepherder · 11-02-2010, 07:51 PM

...???...How do you tell an export "Germany/Made In Germany" marking from an import "Germany/Made In Germany" marking???

lugerholsterrepair · 11-02-2010, 08:25 PM

Ted, would the stamp be applied after the gun was rust blued?
I would think yes..this would be the stronger possibility. It might not be known that the pistol would be destined for an English speaking country. It could be sold in Germany or any other country.
Only after it's export destination were known would the stamp be applied. At least that's my thinking. So I would think any Germany stamp would have a halo.
Jerry Burney

mrerick · 11-02-2010, 08:54 PM

Hi,

Here's my DWM Alphabet commercial (from mid 1923).

The barrel clearly shows halos.

The "Made in Germany" (which is on the right side of the receiver) does not.

I don't believe that this Luger has been refinished.

Marc

ptrickamp222 · 11-02-2010, 10:11 PM

So if a stamp has a halo it is put on after blueing??? If you look at my first post I've pictures of my mid 20 DWM. The barrel has halo's but the Germany seems not to on the front of the frame below the barrel with the serial #'s also the last 2 digits of the serial number on the rest of the pistol. What does it all mean???

MFC · 11-02-2010, 10:33 PM

Patrick,
If a stamp shows halos, it was applied after being blued. If it doesn't show halos it was appied before it was blued. One way of determining if a gun has been reblued is looking for halos of known locations like the S#'s on the barrel, which should show halos. Keep in mind, some halos are very hard to detect.
Rich,
An import stamp has the name, logo, or the initials, and often the location/city and state of the importer. The GERMANY stamps are always export stamps, which shows the country of origin.

Lugerdoc · 11-04-2010, 09:42 AM

Ted, IHO these stamps were applied after bluing. The "Made in (country of origin)" was added in 1923 when required by US law change. Tom

Edward Tinker · 11-04-2010, 10:56 AM

Were final proof marks on left or right applied after or before bluing? What I am curious about is if the receiver is harder / softer and so the halo's don't appear, compared to the barrel?

Ed

Thor · 11-04-2010, 11:33 AM

Mauser Lugers are harder than DWMs. Barrels, sideplates, frames are relatively softer than other parts. Really hard parts are receiver, breechblock,extractor, front and rear toggle links.

MFC · 11-04-2010, 12:20 PM

Ed,
All acceptance stamps and final firing proofs were added before blueing, in case the gun needed to go back for tweaking or parts changes. No need to finish the gun and then find out it doesn't function properly.

ptrickamp222 · 11-04-2010, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFC

Patrick,
If a stamp shows halos, it was applied after being blued. If it doesn't show halos it was appied before it was blued. One way of determining if a gun has been reblued is looking for halos of known locations like the S#'s on the barrel, which should show halos. Keep in mind, some halos are very hard to detect.
Rich,
An import stamp has the name, logo, or the initials, and often the location/city and state of the importer. The GERMANY stamps are always export stamps, which shows the country of origin.

Mine shows halo's on the barrel is that a normal spot for halo's??. Looks like the one in the beginning of this thread. What your saying is if the barrel had no halo's that would be a reblue???? The frame seems to not have halo's or the side marks. Pic's in first thread / My First Luger 30 Cal on this same page of post's. Do not know how to link.

Dwight Gruber · 11-07-2010, 04:05 PM

Not rigorously documented, but--

All the "made in Germany" stamps Ihave observed appear to have been stamped after the finish. They are often stamped very lightly, as the example above. The m-i-G stamps on hardened parts such as the receiver sometimes show metal displacement/eruption, even though halo may not be present. In the photo above, the m-i-G stamp is applied unevenly, and there appears to be a bit of halo above the deeper part of the stamp.

--Dwight

apis mellifera · 11-07-2010, 08:15 PM

FWIW, this is my grandfather's. As far as I know, it's never been touched. I don't see any halos anywhere, but you can clearly see the mis-struck "GERMANY".

ptrickamp222 · 11-09-2010, 10:47 PM

My pistol the Germany on the frame below barrel looks like not a perfect strike either. Pic's on earlier post " My First Lugar" ptrickamp222.

barr44 · 11-15-2010, 07:48 PM

I have two alpha-commercials, both have the germany stamped on the front of the frame between the serial no. and it's suffix. On the one that still has the original finish it looks like the germany was added after bluing. It is lightly struck so it is difficult to determine, but best guess, it seems to have a slight halo.
On the one that has it's original bluing, the s.n. and proof on the barrel show halos, which indicate this was added after the barrel was blued. Was this a common practice with the commercials? All of the frame and toggle markings seemed to have been put on prior to bluing.
Another interesting thing is that on my 30 cal. commercial the C/N proof is on the upper ear of the breechblock left, as well as on the left side of the receiver and bottom of barrel, but on my 9mm commercial the C/N is on the front toggle link, as well as the left receiver, and bottom of barrel. Is there any reason the proof on the toggle assembly would be in different locations or was this just a random placement?
Hope my input is useful, and as always appreciate any info that is forthcoming.
Thanks, barr

Dwight Gruber · 11-27-2010, 12:54 PM

The toggle-train proof position is something I am trying to keep track of in the Commercial database. On those Alphabet Commercial pistols where the positions are reported or observed, there appears to be no recognizable pattern in their poslition on the parts.

--Dwight

matt ott · 12-07-2010, 04:45 PM

my new 1927 alpha commercial is stamped germany on the left frame heaviest at the end and lighter at the GE maby from normal wear?? matt

dharger · 12-08-2010, 08:50 PM

I can't help but wonder if the people that did the stamping for DWM were heavy drinkers at times. My latest alpha commercial in 30 Luger has the Made in Germany stamp on the receiver put on it UPSIDEDOWN

Don M · 12-08-2010, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dharger

I can't help but wonder if the people that did the stamping for DWM were heavy drinkers at times. My latest alpha commercial in 30 Luger has the Made in Germany stamp on the receiver put on it UPSIDEDOWN

Schnaps for lunch will do that to you

11-01-2010, 03:42 PM	#1
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	GERMANY and MADE IN GERMANY Marking Just curious what I can find out about this stamping. It appears an Export stamp for commercial Lugers destined to be sold in the USA. My question is was the stamp applied after the gun was blued or reblued. I would assume it would show up in the white if on a WWI rebarrel model, but what about new commercial Lugers, would the stamp be applied after the gun was rust blued? I have not thought to really examine this marking before on examples with original finish. Thanks for any help on this marking. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

11-02-2010, 07:35 PM	#2
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Thor, I have seen the GERMANY stamp on the front of the frame under the S#, with and without halos, on what I beleived to be Lugers with original finish. All of the larger GERMANY and MADE IN GERMANY stamps that are found on other various places all showed halos. I hope that others more knowledgeable than me will chime in. __________________ Mike C.

11-02-2010, 07:51 PM	#3
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,197 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	...???...How do you tell an export "Germany/Made In Germany" marking from an import "Germany/Made In Germany" marking??? __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

11-02-2010, 08:25 PM	#4
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Ted, would the stamp be applied after the gun was rust blued? I would think yes..this would be the stronger possibility. It might not be known that the pistol would be destined for an English speaking country. It could be sold in Germany or any other country. Only after it's export destination were known would the stamp be applied. At least that's my thinking. So I would think any Germany stamp would have a halo. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

11-02-2010, 08:54 PM	#5
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	"Made in Germany" halos... Hi, Here's my DWM Alphabet commercial (from mid 1923). The barrel clearly shows halos. The "Made in Germany" (which is on the right side of the receiver) does not. I don't believe that this Luger has been refinished. Marc Attached Thumbnails __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

11-02-2010, 10:11 PM	#6
ptrickamp222 User Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 60 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Halo's ????? So if a stamp has a halo it is put on after blueing??? If you look at my first post I've pictures of my mid 20 DWM. The barrel has halo's but the Germany seems not to on the front of the frame below the barrel with the serial #'s also the last 2 digits of the serial number on the rest of the pistol. What does it all mean???

11-02-2010, 10:33 PM	#7
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Patrick, If a stamp shows halos, it was applied after being blued. If it doesn't show halos it was appied before it was blued. One way of determining if a gun has been reblued is looking for halos of known locations like the S#'s on the barrel, which should show halos. Keep in mind, some halos are very hard to detect. Rich, An import stamp has the name, logo, or the initials, and often the location/city and state of the importer. The GERMANY stamps are always export stamps, which shows the country of origin. __________________ Mike C.

11-04-2010, 09:42 AM	#8
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Ted, IHO these stamps were applied after bluing. The "Made in (country of origin)" was added in 1923 when required by US law change. Tom __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

11-04-2010, 10:56 AM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Were final proof marks on left or right applied after or before bluing? What I am curious about is if the receiver is harder / softer and so the halo's don't appear, compared to the barrel? Ed

11-04-2010, 11:33 AM	#10
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Mauser Lugers are harder than DWMs. Barrels, sideplates, frames are relatively softer than other parts. Really hard parts are receiver, breechblock,extractor, front and rear toggle links. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

11-04-2010, 12:20 PM	#11
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Ed, All acceptance stamps and final firing proofs were added before blueing, in case the gun needed to go back for tweaking or parts changes. No need to finish the gun and then find out it doesn't function properly. __________________ Mike C.

11-07-2010, 04:05 PM	#13
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Not rigorously documented, but-- All the "made in Germany" stamps Ihave observed appear to have been stamped after the finish. They are often stamped very lightly, as the example above. The m-i-G stamps on hardened parts such as the receiver sometimes show metal displacement/eruption, even though halo may not be present. In the photo above, the m-i-G stamp is applied unevenly, and there appears to be a bit of halo above the deeper part of the stamp. --Dwight

11-07-2010, 08:15 PM	#14
apis mellifera User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: WV Posts: 149 Thanks: 3 Thanked 24 Times in 8 Posts	FWIW, this is my grandfather's. As far as I know, it's never been touched. I don't see any halos anywhere, but you can clearly see the mis-struck "GERMANY". Attached Thumbnails

11-09-2010, 10:47 PM	#15
ptrickamp222 User Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 60 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Germany Stamp My pistol the Germany on the frame below barrel looks like not a perfect strike either. Pic's on earlier post " My First Lugar" ptrickamp222.

11-15-2010, 07:48 PM	#16
barr44 User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: york co., va Posts: 153 Thanks: 27 Thanked 35 Times in 21 Posts	I have two alpha-commercials, both have the germany stamped on the front of the frame between the serial no. and it's suffix. On the one that still has the original finish it looks like the germany was added after bluing. It is lightly struck so it is difficult to determine, but best guess, it seems to have a slight halo. On the one that has it's original bluing, the s.n. and proof on the barrel show halos, which indicate this was added after the barrel was blued. Was this a common practice with the commercials? All of the frame and toggle markings seemed to have been put on prior to bluing. Another interesting thing is that on my 30 cal. commercial the C/N proof is on the upper ear of the breechblock left, as well as on the left side of the receiver and bottom of barrel, but on my 9mm commercial the C/N is on the front toggle link, as well as the left receiver, and bottom of barrel. Is there any reason the proof on the toggle assembly would be in different locations or was this just a random placement? Hope my input is useful, and as always appreciate any info that is forthcoming. Thanks, barr

11-27-2010, 12:54 PM	#17
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	The toggle-train proof position is something I am trying to keep track of in the Commercial database. On those Alphabet Commercial pistols where the positions are reported or observed, there appears to be no recognizable pattern in their poslition on the parts. --Dwight

12-07-2010, 04:45 PM	#18
matt ott Banned Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 33 Thanks: 3 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	germany stamp 1927 my new 1927 alpha commercial is stamped germany on the left frame heaviest at the end and lighter at the GE maby from normal wear?? matt

12-08-2010, 08:50 PM	#19
dharger User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I can't help but wonder if the people that did the stamping for DWM were heavy drinkers at times. My latest alpha commercial in 30 Luger has the Made in Germany stamp on the receiver put on it UPSIDEDOWN