Shipping a non C&R handgun

Mike B · 10-21-2010, 09:20 AM

Can anyone give me an opinion on shipping a handgun that is not C&R eligible. I know it must be shipped to an FFL holder, but can I ship the handgun without an FFL?

Thanks,
Mike:

lew1 · 10-21-2010, 09:47 AM

As long as it is shipped to an 01 FFL, you can do so. Will have to use UPS or FedEx.

Sometimes, the shipper may want to see a copy of the 01 FFL. Other times they don't.

John Sabato · 10-21-2010, 10:25 AM

It also depends on the receiving FFL holder... Some of them refuse to accept gun shipments from anyone except another FFL holder... BUT it is legal.

Mike, in your case you should have no trouble shipping it as a C&R license holder to a FFL.

As stated above, you can't use the Postal Service legally... (but I know it happens because it is cheaper to ship it that way... "you pays your money and you takes your chances")

Mike B · 10-21-2010, 03:32 PM

Thanks guys,
I am seriously considering offering for sale a NIB NRA commerative Ruger 22. I want to be prepared on how to handle shipping.

Thanks again,
Mike

JRS · 10-21-2010, 04:17 PM

A couple of weeks ago I shipped a Luger to Ahlman's in Minnesota for refinishing. UPS wanted me to jump through a bunch of hoops to do it, so I took it to FedEx and, without telling them what it was, shipped it for $11.00. It got there in three days. Ahlman's makes it a point on their web site to inform gun owners that it is legal to ship to them provided you are not selling the gun.

The only thing that disturbs me is that I think Ahlman's is going to require that it be sent back to an FFL. So, that means I am going to have to pay my gun dealer another transfer fee on a gun that I have already paid them six months ago to transfer to me.

One other thing that distresses me is that I did not go to Thor's web site before all of this. If I had, the gun would now be in his obviously capable hands. If you have not seen his work on Lugers, you should do yourself a favor and click on his web site for some absolutely fabulous pictures of his work.

John Sabato · 10-21-2010, 05:36 PM

It is LEGAL for an FFL holder to receive a gun from a non-license holder, and for that FFL holder to ship the gun back to the owner... But as stated earlier... SOME FFL holders will only deal with other FFL holders on interstate transactions because they don't understand the law, or in some cases, it is just their policy to only deal with another FFL holder. Your refinisher should return the gun to you in a legal manner and without your local FFL getting involved unless you local state law says otherwise.

Ray · 10-21-2010, 10:10 PM

The shipping charges for UPS and FedEx are exorbanant. They want you
to send it by next day delivery. I tried to send a little pocket pistol to the
midwest from here in Oregon and both companies wanted in excess of $80.
I notice on GunBroker that these sellers quote $50 or less. How do they
do that? Are their any cheaper alternatives to UPS/FedEx?

Michael Zeleny · 10-21-2010, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRS

A couple of weeks ago I shipped a Luger to Ahlman's in Minnesota for refinishing. UPS wanted me to jump through a bunch of hoops to do it, so I took it to FedEx and, without telling them what it was, shipped it for $11.00. It got there in three days.

Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. Please see 18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A) and 922(e), and 27 CFR 178.31.

JRS · 10-22-2010, 07:39 PM

Oops!

I didn't realize there was such a law. But after reading your link to the law, it makes me wonder why if the carrier is forbidden to label the package a firearm what difference does it make as to what is in the package? If the package was labeled a firearm, you can bet it would never reach its destination. It would be stolen.

Edward Tinker · 10-23-2010, 04:45 AM

You know,one thing has always puzzeled me;

It states contract carriers, so that is assumed to be UPS or FedEX, but could be DHL, etc. Technically, the USPS is not a gov't entity, and why they are exempted, I have always found weird. Plus, the technicalities state that an FFL can ship via USPS, and in another place it states dealer.

I guess someone should write the BATF and ask that question / but I think most folks don't want it more clear but skirt the issue....

Ed

Michael; your link states

Quote:

(2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that—
(A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector;

cfc · 10-23-2010, 01:03 PM

Here is the form you need to fill out to mail your firearm:

http://www.usps.com/forms/_pdf/ps1508.pdf

It did say you have to be a firearm manufacturer or dealer. C&R license is not a dealer license.

lfid · 10-23-2010, 01:28 PM

I think box labeled "firearm" screams steal me now

some time ago the usps used to allow mailing short and long guns as typical mail packages but required the bold "firearm" label

possibly the current law was written before the popularity/existence of usps priority mail and maybe the overnite shippers lobby was a factor and perhaps the postal service didnt need the money at the time

I suppose the ups and fedex fees could be considered "stay out of jail" or "avoid the lawyer" premiums

Bill

zinfull · 10-23-2010, 01:50 PM

I believe that UPS and FedEx uses next day air to get more money from a captive group. Also that there are so many thieves that work for them it makes it harder to steal. Either way we are at their mercy.

jerry

Ron Smith · 10-23-2010, 03:21 PM

UPS requires overnight delivery due a series of internal firearms thefts in the late 90's. I was present at a local shop when a new Glock was delivered by UPS in circa '98. The gun hard case was in the box, and was empty. The strapping tape had been slit with a razor(?) and carefully re-taped.

Never label the outside of a box as a firearm. If the carrier requires this (I have never heard of it) find another carrier.

Ron

10-21-2010, 09:20 AM	#1
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	Shipping a non C&R handgun Can anyone give me an opinion on shipping a handgun that is not C&R eligible. I know it must be shipped to an FFL holder, but can I ship the handgun without an FFL? Thanks, Mike:

10-21-2010, 09:47 AM	#2
lew1 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,108 Thanks: 82 Thanked 204 Times in 112 Posts	As long as it is shipped to an 01 FFL, you can do so. Will have to use UPS or FedEx. Sometimes, the shipper may want to see a copy of the 01 FFL. Other times they don't. __________________ charlie

10-21-2010, 10:25 AM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	It also depends on the receiving FFL holder... Some of them refuse to accept gun shipments from anyone except another FFL holder... BUT it is legal. Mike, in your case you should have no trouble shipping it as a C&R license holder to a FFL. As stated above, you can't use the Postal Service legally... (but I know it happens because it is cheaper to ship it that way... "you pays your money and you takes your chances") __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-21-2010, 05:36 PM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	It is LEGAL for an FFL holder to receive a gun from a non-license holder, and for that FFL holder to ship the gun back to the owner... But as stated earlier... SOME FFL holders will only deal with other FFL holders on interstate transactions because they don't understand the law, or in some cases, it is just their policy to only deal with another FFL holder. Your refinisher should return the gun to you in a legal manner and without your local FFL getting involved unless you local state law says otherwise. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-23-2010, 01:03 PM	#11
cfc New User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Arizona Posts: 4 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ship by USPS Here is the form you need to fill out to mail your firearm: http://www.usps.com/forms/_pdf/ps1508.pdf It did say you have to be a firearm manufacturer or dealer. C&R license is not a dealer license.

10-21-2010, 03:32 PM	#4
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	Thanks guys, I am seriously considering offering for sale a NIB NRA commerative Ruger 22. I want to be prepared on how to handle shipping. Thanks again, Mike

10-21-2010, 04:17 PM	#5
JRS User Join Date: May 2010 Location: Virginia Beach, VA 23452 Posts: 81 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	A couple of weeks ago I shipped a Luger to Ahlman's in Minnesota for refinishing. UPS wanted me to jump through a bunch of hoops to do it, so I took it to FedEx and, without telling them what it was, shipped it for $11.00. It got there in three days. Ahlman's makes it a point on their web site to inform gun owners that it is legal to ship to them provided you are not selling the gun. The only thing that disturbs me is that I think Ahlman's is going to require that it be sent back to an FFL. So, that means I am going to have to pay my gun dealer another transfer fee on a gun that I have already paid them six months ago to transfer to me. One other thing that distresses me is that I did not go to Thor's web site before all of this. If I had, the gun would now be in his obviously capable hands. If you have not seen his work on Lugers, you should do yourself a favor and click on his web site for some absolutely fabulous pictures of his work.

10-21-2010, 10:10 PM	#7
Ray Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 127 Thanks: 2 Thanked 37 Times in 16 Posts	The shipping charges for UPS and FedEx are exorbanant. They want you to send it by next day delivery. I tried to send a little pocket pistol to the midwest from here in Oregon and both companies wanted in excess of $80. I notice on GunBroker that these sellers quote $50 or less. How do they do that? Are their any cheaper alternatives to UPS/FedEx?

10-22-2010, 07:39 PM	#9
JRS User Join Date: May 2010 Location: Virginia Beach, VA 23452 Posts: 81 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Oops! I didn't realize there was such a law. But after reading your link to the law, it makes me wonder why if the carrier is forbidden to label the package a firearm what difference does it make as to what is in the package? If the package was labeled a firearm, you can bet it would never reach its destination. It would be stolen.

10-23-2010, 01:28 PM	#12
lfid Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wichita, KS USA Posts: 453 Thanks: 573 Thanked 96 Times in 53 Posts	I think box labeled "firearm" screams steal me now some time ago the usps used to allow mailing short and long guns as typical mail packages but required the bold "firearm" label possibly the current law was written before the popularity/existence of usps priority mail and maybe the overnite shippers lobby was a factor and perhaps the postal service didnt need the money at the time I suppose the ups and fedex fees could be considered "stay out of jail" or "avoid the lawyer" premiums Bill

10-23-2010, 01:50 PM	#13
zinfull Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sonoma County CA Posts: 243 Thanks: 5 Thanked 33 Times in 16 Posts	I believe that UPS and FedEx uses next day air to get more money from a captive group. Also that there are so many thieves that work for them it makes it harder to steal. Either way we are at their mercy. jerry

10-23-2010, 03:21 PM	#14
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	UPS requires overnight delivery due a series of internal firearms thefts in the late 90's. I was present at a local shop when a new Glock was delivered by UPS in circa '98. The gun hard case was in the box, and was empty. The strapping tape had been slit with a razor(?) and carefully re-taped. Never label the outside of a box as a firearm. If the carrier requires this (I have never heard of it) find another carrier. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...