Simpson's lost mind - Page 2

Ron Smith · 03-15-2010, 09:33 AM

If you zoom in all the way on the safety lever. It doesn't look blued. It appears to have heavy patina. I'm not defending their prices. It's just my observations.

Ron

Norme · 03-15-2010, 10:29 AM

Hi again Jerry, I've found this picture of a 1910 DWM safety that has a distinctly bluish hue. Perhaps it's caused by the oils naturally present on ones fingers, or maybe sauerkraut juice. Who knows? Regards, Norm

Don M · 03-15-2010, 11:01 AM

Here is a lightened photo of the items in dispute. No opinions. I have no dog in this hunt.

Big Norm · 03-15-2010, 04:35 PM

Hi Norme, I can only hope that all the other Norms are as good looking as I am.
Big Norm

Vlim · 03-15-2010, 05:08 PM

Looking at the photos again I noticed something odd. Perhaps Jerry managed to fuel my paranoia here

The front of the frame, the part where the serial number is struck, seems to have been ground down. Note that the receiver slightly extends past the front of the frame. The serial number area is relatively flat and there is a clear separation line between the curve of the frame front and the flat part of the serial area. That would almost suggest that the frame was renumbered to match the barrel/receiver.

Big Norm · 03-15-2010, 05:33 PM

Jerry,
I hope that in no way did I hammer you. I have been on this forum for a long time and you and Ron Wood are two guys that are in a class of your own. If I gave the appearance that I thought any different then I apologize.

Thanks to Don M's good pictures of the arty in question, it is clear that comments about possible bluing of the thumb safety and mag release button can be put aside. It is just a problem of some pretty bad patina on these parts. Maybe we should send Simpson a note recommending Don M or Norme to go to Simpsons place and teach him how to take better pictures or lighten up the ones that he does take. Thanks guys.

There is another 1918 artillery on Gun Broker. Better pictures. But at $3900, I didn't look at it very long.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=160791510

Big Norm

alvin · 03-15-2010, 05:46 PM

It's really not seller's responsibility to guarantee anything. Buyer will be the owner, and will take sole responsibility to everything. As long as seller could honor 3-day, or 5-day, he/she is a good seller. My requirement when playing buyer role is not high.

Dwight Gruber · 03-15-2010, 08:20 PM

Gerben,

The frame machining you describe is much more common than you might expect. This appears to be one of the finishing "shortcuts" which shows up in later production, and carries over into Weimar-era production.

--Dwight

Vlim · 03-15-2010, 08:28 PM

Dwight,

Thanks, yet another detail for my 'to do list'

My 1917 LP08 has had it's serial number removed and renumbered in a rather abusive way, so I tend to look at this area with some suspicion. Basically I like the receiver and the frame to be somewhat more flush than this one. Makes one wonder if DWM 'recycled' frames during wartime production by removing the serials of 'mishaps' and feeding them back into the system. Mauser did this in the 1970s, so it's not that far fetched.

George Anderson · 03-15-2010, 08:54 PM

Looks to me like a bit of touch-up with cold blue on the grip screws and safety lever. The left grip, as Jerry notes, is not the kind of fit I would expect to find. The halos on the barrel numbers look good but the toggle photos are too dark to judge.

Dwight Gruber · 03-15-2010, 09:28 PM

Gerben,

I've given this one a lot of thought. Rre-use and re-numbering of frames is also one of the presumptions in the theory of post-war Commercial guns being made from military production parts. As the serial numbers were stamped after the pistol was fitted and finished, re-used and re-numbered frames would imply the existence of a lot of other re-numbered parts, which are not seen in practice.

Joop probably has more to say on this subject.

--Dwight5

alvin · 03-15-2010, 10:56 PM

Even for parts originally made to be used on military guns, if unused, should it be unnumbered..... numbered means recycled parts from complete guns. Let's assume that true, recycled parts, but where the "donors" came from? Maybe from military rejected guns.... what's the rejection rate..... why did not the factory simply fix the specific problem... that would be less effort.....

Legitimate renumbering opens padora's box. Anything can be covered here, but limited to frame only?

byf45 · 03-17-2010, 07:55 PM

Don M ( or anyone... )
A question: how do you 'copy' a photo from Simpson's web site? A 'right-click' doesn't bring up the standard "Save Photo As" that I'm used to.
Like many collectors, I like to keep photos of various weapons for reference purposes and some sites are like this one, whereby I am unable to access them.
Any tips in this regard would be appreciated!
Thanks,
JohnB/

cirelaw · 03-17-2010, 10:32 PM

I just tried the right click procedure and I too have no success, It has to be a block. I'll figure a way!

lew1 · 03-18-2010, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by byf45

Don M ( or anyone... )
A question: how do you 'copy' a photo from Simpson's web site? A 'right-click' doesn't bring up the standard "Save Photo As" that I'm used to.
Like many collectors, I like to keep photos of various weapons for reference purposes and some sites are like this one, whereby I am unable to access them.
Any tips in this regard would be appreciated!
Thanks,
JohnB/

Try going to "File" and save the webpage.

A.Mifsin · 03-18-2010, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by byf45

Don M ( or anyone... )
A question: how do you 'copy' a photo from Simpson's web site? A 'right-click' doesn't bring up the standard "Save Photo As" that I'm used to.
Like many collectors, I like to keep photos of various weapons for reference purposes and some sites are like this one, whereby I am unable to access them.
Any tips in this regard would be appreciated!
Thanks,
JohnB/

I just print the page to PDF format. It works for me.

Alf.

Don M · 03-18-2010, 12:51 PM

I do the same as Alf. The Simpson photos are in .pdf format and have to be "printed" to software capable of accepting this format. I use PDF Creator. I can then save the file as a .jpg file and subsequently edit it with Photoshop or other editing software.

byf45 · 03-18-2010, 06:00 PM

Thank you all! I kind of figured there had to be a way around it but never thought about PDFing it. I'll give `er a try.
Again, my appreciation for answering.
JohnB/

laoshi75 · 03-19-2010, 11:42 AM

A few weeks ago they offered a LP08 Erfurt 1914 complete rig for $2990 (pistol + stock + holster).
The photos were very bad and dark, but I recognized an early corduroy made holster...a bargain for this price ! Unfortunately they refused to sell the holster separately.

laoshi75 · 03-20-2010, 10:21 AM

I forgot: I don't know why these guys, and others, protect their photos while anyone can save them easily with any screen capture software. I use a french free soft (capturino) very easy to manage. Look at Google, and try "screen capture software",
choose the smallest free soft and install it on your computer, you will be able to save all protected photos in any format.

03-15-2010, 09:33 AM	#21
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	If you zoom in all the way on the safety lever. It doesn't look blued. It appears to have heavy patina. I'm not defending their prices. It's just my observations. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

03-15-2010, 10:29 AM	#22
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,605 Times in 933 Posts	Hi again Jerry, I've found this picture of a 1910 DWM safety that has a distinctly bluish hue. Perhaps it's caused by the oils naturally present on ones fingers, or maybe sauerkraut juice. Who knows? Regards, Norm Attached Thumbnails

03-15-2010, 11:01 AM	#23
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Here is a lightened photo of the items in dispute. No opinions. I have no dog in this hunt. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

03-18-2010, 12:51 PM	#37
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	I do the same as Alf. The Simpson photos are in .pdf format and have to be "printed" to software capable of accepting this format. I use PDF Creator. I can then save the file as a .jpg file and subsequently edit it with Photoshop or other editing software. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

03-15-2010, 04:35 PM	#24
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Hi Norme, I can only hope that all the other Norms are as good looking as I am. Big Norm

03-15-2010, 05:08 PM	#25
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	Looking at the photos again I noticed something odd. Perhaps Jerry managed to fuel my paranoia here The front of the frame, the part where the serial number is struck, seems to have been ground down. Note that the receiver slightly extends past the front of the frame. The serial number area is relatively flat and there is a clear separation line between the curve of the frame front and the flat part of the serial area. That would almost suggest that the frame was renumbered to match the barrel/receiver.

03-15-2010, 05:33 PM	#26
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Jerry, I hope that in no way did I hammer you. I have been on this forum for a long time and you and Ron Wood are two guys that are in a class of your own. If I gave the appearance that I thought any different then I apologize. Thanks to Don M's good pictures of the arty in question, it is clear that comments about possible bluing of the thumb safety and mag release button can be put aside. It is just a problem of some pretty bad patina on these parts. Maybe we should send Simpson a note recommending Don M or Norme to go to Simpsons place and teach him how to take better pictures or lighten up the ones that he does take. Thanks guys. There is another 1918 artillery on Gun Broker. Better pictures. But at $3900, I didn't look at it very long. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=160791510 Big Norm

03-15-2010, 05:46 PM	#27
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	It's really not seller's responsibility to guarantee anything. Buyer will be the owner, and will take sole responsibility to everything. As long as seller could honor 3-day, or 5-day, he/she is a good seller. My requirement when playing buyer role is not high.

03-15-2010, 08:20 PM	#28
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,903 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,321 Times in 432 Posts	Gerben, The frame machining you describe is much more common than you might expect. This appears to be one of the finishing "shortcuts" which shows up in later production, and carries over into Weimar-era production. --Dwight

03-15-2010, 08:28 PM	#29
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	Dwight, Thanks, yet another detail for my 'to do list' My 1917 LP08 has had it's serial number removed and renumbered in a rather abusive way, so I tend to look at this area with some suspicion. Basically I like the receiver and the frame to be somewhat more flush than this one. Makes one wonder if DWM 'recycled' frames during wartime production by removing the serials of 'mishaps' and feeding them back into the system. Mauser did this in the 1970s, so it's not that far fetched.

03-15-2010, 08:54 PM	#30
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,530 Times in 787 Posts	Looks to me like a bit of touch-up with cold blue on the grip screws and safety lever. The left grip, as Jerry notes, is not the kind of fit I would expect to find. The halos on the barrel numbers look good but the toggle photos are too dark to judge.

03-15-2010, 09:28 PM	#31
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,903 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,321 Times in 432 Posts	Gerben, I've given this one a lot of thought. Rre-use and re-numbering of frames is also one of the presumptions in the theory of post-war Commercial guns being made from military production parts. As the serial numbers were stamped after the pistol was fitted and finished, re-used and re-numbered frames would imply the existence of a lot of other re-numbered parts, which are not seen in practice. Joop probably has more to say on this subject. --Dwight5

03-15-2010, 10:56 PM	#32
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Even for parts originally made to be used on military guns, if unused, should it be unnumbered..... numbered means recycled parts from complete guns. Let's assume that true, recycled parts, but where the "donors" came from? Maybe from military rejected guns.... what's the rejection rate..... why did not the factory simply fix the specific problem... that would be less effort..... Legitimate renumbering opens padora's box. Anything can be covered here, but limited to frame only?

03-17-2010, 07:55 PM	#33
byf45 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Don M ( or anyone... ) A question: how do you 'copy' a photo from Simpson's web site? A 'right-click' doesn't bring up the standard "Save Photo As" that I'm used to. Like many collectors, I like to keep photos of various weapons for reference purposes and some sites are like this one, whereby I am unable to access them. Any tips in this regard would be appreciated! Thanks, JohnB/

03-17-2010, 10:32 PM	#34
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,135 Times in 2,174 Posts	I just tried the right click procedure and I too have no success, It has to be a block. I'll figure a way!

03-18-2010, 06:00 PM	#38
byf45 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you all! I kind of figured there had to be a way around it but never thought about PDFing it. I'll give `er a try. Again, my appreciation for answering. JohnB/

03-19-2010, 11:42 AM	#39
laoshi75 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Thailand/France Posts: 490 Thanks: 288 Thanked 96 Times in 41 Posts	A few weeks ago they offered a LP08 Erfurt 1914 complete rig for $2990 (pistol + stock + holster). The photos were very bad and dark, but I recognized an early corduroy made holster...a bargain for this price ! Unfortunately they refused to sell the holster separately.

03-20-2010, 10:21 AM	#40
laoshi75 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Thailand/France Posts: 490 Thanks: 288 Thanked 96 Times in 41 Posts	I forgot: I don't know why these guys, and others, protect their photos while anyone can save them easily with any screen capture software. I use a french free soft (capturino) very easy to manage. Look at Google, and try "screen capture software", choose the smallest free soft and install it on your computer, you will be able to save all protected photos in any format.