Mauser Evaluation Needed

NoLuck · 09-29-2009, 12:14 PM

Hey
You guys have all been so helpful with my other stuff so I want to find out some info on this one now as well. I'm thinking of selling and I have a guy up here who is interested. I'd really love to know what you guys think I should ask for it.

Thanks

worldoftone · 09-29-2009, 12:52 PM

I'd be interested if you lived by me LOL! Awesome, awesome piece.

- WOT

NoLuck · 09-29-2009, 10:17 PM

Thanks.
Any ideas on what they're worth these days ?

World Of Tone sounds like a music shop.You a musician ?

worldoftone · 09-30-2009, 10:00 AM

Am a musician (playing the three bands now), but my main job is fixing tube guitar/bass amps. Tossing a number out there, looks like a pre-war commercial, I'd say US $1,900 - $2,200 range for the complete rig.

- WOT

Mauser720 · 09-30-2009, 10:36 AM

NoLuck -

You can also check out dealer websites at www.fgsfirearms.com and www.simpsonltd.com to get some idea of the prices the dealers are getting.

Simpson has a bunch of them now. In fact, they have one with only 10% blue remaining, matching numbers, and a bent barrel. Their price on this seductive beauty is only $595.00.

worldoftone · 09-30-2009, 10:57 AM

Simpson, while a good resource, many times doesn't seem to reflect reality pricing.

I've found Broom prices to be all over the map the past couple of years.

- WOT

NoLuck · 09-30-2009, 04:11 PM

I've been looking at all of those but didn't really have the info I needed to compare. I have done a lot of research in the last few days and think I know a little better now. I also have learned to look at other posts before I just jump in and post the same thing.
Guess I'm just a guy and don't always read what I should before I act.
WOT , I'm a picker too , recently "getting back out there" after a brief (10 year) break. Boy the club scene has changed !!! Anyway , I rant...
Thanks for the info.

NoLuck · 09-30-2009, 04:14 PM

P.S thanks for those links. I've looked at the Simpson site but hadn't seen the other one. Any other really good ones to use as a yardstick ?
Erik

Mauser720 · 09-30-2009, 05:28 PM

worldoftone - My opinion is the same as yours regarding Simpson and their prices.

NoLuck - Well, another suggestion would be to go to www.gunbroker.com and enter C96 in their search engine. There will be some for sale, some with a "reserve" price, and some without. Some with a "Buy It Now" price, and others being sold at auction, etc. There will also be C96 accessories there too. If you watch this site you will eventually get a better idea of what they are going for, etc.

alvin · 09-30-2009, 06:17 PM

C96 is a weird world.

On the one hand, I post WTB, no one says "I have what you're looking for". On the other hand, there are many C96s in span of conditions floating on the market.

Very imbalanced variation distribution. May that explain worldoftone's comments "I've found Broom prices to be all over the map the past couple of years.".... but for "Big 4" (Prewar Small Ring, Wartime Production, Bolo, and 1930), 3D measurement dominates the price. 3D, never heard of it? Condition of (1) finish, (2) bore, and (3) matching stock. Then it's not hard to understand those transactions.

sheepherder · 09-30-2009, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauser720

Simpson has a bunch of them now. In fact, they have one with only 10% blue remaining, matching numbers, and a bent barrel. Their price on this seductive beauty is only $595.00.

Huh??? What??? A C96 needing a barrel for cheap???

OK, I scoped it out...I'm tempted to offer them $450 for it...the grips are junk; the barrel can be replaced; but the angle of the hammer has me concerned...The only way that hammer could be angled like that is if the receiver is in a rearward position about 1/8"...and it shouldn't "hang up" in that position...

Edit: I'm holding my C96 up to the screen, and zooming in...I can see that the Simpson C96 receiver is in slight rearward position...It is definitely jammed somewhere...mine snaps right forward when receiver is released...I'll offer $400...

Edit2: OK, I emailed them my offer!

alvin · 09-30-2009, 08:08 PM

Simpson's bent barrel gun has been there for a few years.

The wierd angle of the hammer comes from the receiver not fully returning to its forward position, as shown on the picture. Why did not the receiver returns to its forward position .... could be main spring's problem, more likely being a mismatched (or forced matched) bolt lock.

The first thing to check a C96 on gun show before asking permission to disassemble: cocking the hammer, pushing the barrel backwards, then release the barrel. If the barrel does not return to it's fully forward position, the gun has a problem. It may shoot in range, but it's not healthy.

worldoftone · 09-30-2009, 10:31 PM

Quote:

The first thing to check a C96 on gun show before asking permission to disassemble: cocking the hammer, pushing the barrel backwards, then release the barrel. If the barrel does not return to it's fully forward position, the gun has a problem. It may shoot in range, but it's not healthy.

Good advice.

And to the 3D . . . I've seen MANY, MANY C-96s with shot-out bores with owners asking a premium price. I just keep walking. I know these guns are old and some pitting/frosting etc. can be expected, but little to NO rifling left . . . seen it a bunch. I usually won't buy it because it isn't ever cheap enough to where it could be made reasonably right and you could still get your money's worth.

- WOT

worldoftone · 09-30-2009, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Very imbalanced variation distribution. May that explain worldoftone's comments "I've found Broom prices to be all over the map the past couple of years."....

Actually it is with prices across an even range. For example . . . wartime commercial. Recently I've seen similar condition pistols (matching numbers, OK bore but minus stock) in average condition (but similar condition to each other) range from $450 up to $1,200. No kidding. This was a cross-sample of about 7 - 10 pistols. I should have bought the one for $450. OOPS! I put the money towards a G-43 instead

- WOT

NoLuck · 09-30-2009, 11:10 PM

Maybe I'll just hang onto it.
I've looked at the ones on gunbroker and they range all over and it also seems not too many of them have bids on them.

It's not like they're making any more so I'm sure they're bound to increase in value.

sheepherder · 10-01-2009, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoLuck

Maybe I'll just hang onto it.
I've looked at the ones on gunbroker and they range all over and it also seems not too many of them have bids on them.

It's not like they're making any more so I'm sure they're bound to increase in value.

I've noticed that sales of any kind of pistols tend to be cyclical...and if there is an article in a widely read magazine (Handgunner, Rifleman, Shotgun News) there is a spike in sales...not necessarily an increase in prices, but in sales...

I am vulnerable to such spikes...In-depth articles tend to illuminate the more interesting aspects of any item...I am always interested in interesting things...

alvin · 10-01-2009, 07:43 AM

Nowadays, original 7,62x25 Tokarev is hot on market. Personally, I am interested in it, but good ones are not cheap at all. It's hard to compete on the market. People pay well for it.

Original, not including those with manual safety level added, or added then removed by buyer. ATF created lots of work.

Lugerdoc · 10-01-2009, 09:24 AM

Since so many abused brooms came in from China years ago, the prices of these, even relined, bored out to 9mm &/or refinished, is on the low side as shooters. If your C96 is matching with a nice bore and original finish, it would be worth at least twice as much as these shooters. Also since the stock doesn't match the gun and the leather stock carrier is for a Red Nine model, you would probably make out better selling these items seperately. TH

sheepherder · 10-01-2009, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

Why did not the receiver returns to its forward position .... could be main spring's problem, more likely being a mismatched (or forced matched) bolt lock.

...Bolt *lock*??? Or bolt itself???

When I swapped the guts of my Red 5 into the "new" receiver, the bolt itself was a snug fit...it too hung up...so I lapped it in with polishing compound, and now it is as smooth as owl sh*t...

FWIW: I use three different kinds of compound to lap in parts...

Dupont Polishing Compound - fine grit
Dupont Rubbing Compound - medium grit
Permatex Valve Grinding Compound - coarse grit

You can usually tell (with the aid of blue dye) where the part is tight...and depending on how much metal you wish to remove, you choose the appropriate compound...

My C96 safety is too tight; I'll be lapping that in as well...with polishing compound...

alvin · 10-01-2009, 07:10 PM

Sure, bolt and bolt lock mismatching could be an issue. It does not have to be the case. There are a few possibilities. On one sample that I met, hooking the bolt lock on top of the lock frame and pushing down the bolt lock, then releasing it, the lock simply does not jump up (and bolt is not even in the picture -- the bolt lock does not match the lock frame in this case). That's wrong.

I never work on those things. But for checking purpose, it's necessary to have a few methods to that can be tried externally to make sure the subject does not have obvious mechanical issues. In store and in gun show, it's not always convenient to disassemble a gun. So checking everything externally before I make an offer and asking 3-day.

09-29-2009, 12:14 PM	#1
NoLuck User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ontario , Canada Posts: 65 Thanks: 8 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Mauser Evaluation Needed Hey You guys have all been so helpful with my other stuff so I want to find out some info on this one now as well. I'm thinking of selling and I have a guy up here who is interested. I'd really love to know what you guys think I should ask for it. Thanks

09-30-2009, 10:36 AM	#5
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	NoLuck - You can also check out dealer websites at www.fgsfirearms.com and www.simpsonltd.com to get some idea of the prices the dealers are getting. Simpson has a bunch of them now. In fact, they have one with only 10% blue remaining, matching numbers, and a bent barrel. Their price on this seductive beauty is only $595.00. __________________ Mauser720 - Ron "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."

09-30-2009, 05:28 PM	#9
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	worldoftone - My opinion is the same as yours regarding Simpson and their prices. NoLuck - Well, another suggestion would be to go to www.gunbroker.com and enter C96 in their search engine. There will be some for sale, some with a "reserve" price, and some without. Some with a "Buy It Now" price, and others being sold at auction, etc. There will also be C96 accessories there too. If you watch this site you will eventually get a better idea of what they are going for, etc. __________________ Mauser720 - Ron "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."

10-01-2009, 09:24 AM	#18
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Since so many abused brooms came in from China years ago, the prices of these, even relined, bored out to 9mm &/or refinished, is on the low side as shooters. If your C96 is matching with a nice bore and original finish, it would be worth at least twice as much as these shooters. Also since the stock doesn't match the gun and the leather stock carrier is for a Red Nine model, you would probably make out better selling these items seperately. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

09-29-2009, 12:52 PM	#2
worldoftone User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 81 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I'd be interested if you lived by me LOL! Awesome, awesome piece. - WOT

09-29-2009, 10:17 PM	#3
NoLuck User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ontario , Canada Posts: 65 Thanks: 8 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks. Any ideas on what they're worth these days ? World Of Tone sounds like a music shop.You a musician ?

09-30-2009, 10:00 AM	#4
worldoftone User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 81 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Am a musician (playing the three bands now), but my main job is fixing tube guitar/bass amps. Tossing a number out there, looks like a pre-war commercial, I'd say US $1,900 - $2,200 range for the complete rig. - WOT

09-30-2009, 10:57 AM	#6
worldoftone User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 81 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Simpson, while a good resource, many times doesn't seem to reflect reality pricing. I've found Broom prices to be all over the map the past couple of years. - WOT

09-30-2009, 04:11 PM	#7
NoLuck User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ontario , Canada Posts: 65 Thanks: 8 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I've been looking at all of those but didn't really have the info I needed to compare. I have done a lot of research in the last few days and think I know a little better now. I also have learned to look at other posts before I just jump in and post the same thing. Guess I'm just a guy and don't always read what I should before I act. WOT , I'm a picker too , recently "getting back out there" after a brief (10 year) break. Boy the club scene has changed !!! Anyway , I rant... Thanks for the info.

09-30-2009, 04:14 PM	#8
NoLuck User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ontario , Canada Posts: 65 Thanks: 8 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	P.S thanks for those links. I've looked at the Simpson site but hadn't seen the other one. Any other really good ones to use as a yardstick ? Erik

09-30-2009, 06:17 PM	#10
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	C96 is a weird world. On the one hand, I post WTB, no one says "I have what you're looking for". On the other hand, there are many C96s in span of conditions floating on the market. Very imbalanced variation distribution. May that explain worldoftone's comments "I've found Broom prices to be all over the map the past couple of years.".... but for "Big 4" (Prewar Small Ring, Wartime Production, Bolo, and 1930), 3D measurement dominates the price. 3D, never heard of it? Condition of (1) finish, (2) bore, and (3) matching stock. Then it's not hard to understand those transactions.

09-30-2009, 08:08 PM	#12
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Simpson's bent barrel gun has been there for a few years. The wierd angle of the hammer comes from the receiver not fully returning to its forward position, as shown on the picture. Why did not the receiver returns to its forward position .... could be main spring's problem, more likely being a mismatched (or forced matched) bolt lock. The first thing to check a C96 on gun show before asking permission to disassemble: cocking the hammer, pushing the barrel backwards, then release the barrel. If the barrel does not return to it's fully forward position, the gun has a problem. It may shoot in range, but it's not healthy.

09-30-2009, 11:10 PM	#15
NoLuck User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ontario , Canada Posts: 65 Thanks: 8 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Maybe I'll just hang onto it. I've looked at the ones on gunbroker and they range all over and it also seems not too many of them have bids on them. It's not like they're making any more so I'm sure they're bound to increase in value.

10-01-2009, 07:43 AM	#17
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Nowadays, original 7,62x25 Tokarev is hot on market. Personally, I am interested in it, but good ones are not cheap at all. It's hard to compete on the market. People pay well for it. Original, not including those with manual safety level added, or added then removed by buyer. ATF created lots of work.

10-01-2009, 07:10 PM	#20
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Sure, bolt and bolt lock mismatching could be an issue. It does not have to be the case. There are a few possibilities. On one sample that I met, hooking the bolt lock on top of the lock frame and pushing down the bolt lock, then releasing it, the lock simply does not jump up (and bolt is not even in the picture -- the bolt lock does not match the lock frame in this case). That's wrong. I never work on those things. But for checking purpose, it's necessary to have a few methods to that can be tried externally to make sure the subject does not have obvious mechanical issues. In store and in gun show, it's not always convenient to disassemble a gun. So checking everything externally before I make an offer and asking 3-day.