1942 unmarked toggle pin

Dave Sanders · 07-23-2008, 09:24 PM

I have a nice 1942 BYF with all matching numbers that are supposed to be matched , except the toggle pin. It is blank but looks proper in every way to other toggle pins side by side. I guess this may be a dumb question, I hope not, but what could be a reason the toggle pin is not marked? I wondered if all toggle pins had to be and were marked? I wondered why anyone if it were the case, would switch it out. Does this just make it an unmatched shooter now? It is such a nice luger, but any thought or comments would be appreciated if you have similar guns or experiences. Thanks.
Dave

Ron Wood · 07-23-2008, 09:56 PM

I do not know whether the pin is correct if it is unnumbered (WWII guns are not my area of interest in collecting). But anyone that would suggest that a nice collector grade Luger with an unnumbered toggle pin, even if it was supposed to be numbered, must be reduced to just shooter status should be led away to a nice quiet place where they won't hurt anybody.

wlyon · 07-24-2008, 01:19 AM

Ron
Amen !
Bill

Dave Sanders · 07-24-2008, 01:37 AM

Thanks for the input. I would agree with what you said, but I'm sure many would think something like that has been messed with. That is what bugs me. Why would something like that be taken and replaced with a blank one? It doesn't make sense when all the other parts match. That is why I can't help but think that was the way it came. Is that something plausible or not with the 3rd Reich efficiency?
Dave

Steinar · 07-24-2008, 03:37 AM

Dave, these pins can get worn out over time.
If the pin was frequently fallen out of the receiver when it's apart from the frame, down to the former owners furry carpet, he may have slamed his fist on the table an replaced it with a 'tighter' one.

As to non-matching, I agree with Ron and Bill. ..even if the pin was pink with green dot's, it would not place the Luger into shooter's category based only on that.

Navy · 07-24-2008, 08:24 AM

Original WWII Era German replacement pins should be "42" numbered. Otherwise, post war replacement.

Tom A

Dave Sanders · 07-24-2008, 02:58 PM

Thank you for the replies. I'll have to keep an eye out for a marked toggle to get it back if ever possible.
Dave

Frank · 07-24-2008, 04:03 PM

Hi Dave, if you are going to look for a new toggle main pin, make sure it is numbered with the last two digits of the Luger serial number. For instance if your S/N is 1234h (The alpha-numeric on the front of the frame), then the proper pin would be numbered "34".

You might check with Tom Heller (Lugerdoc). He has helped me out with pistol parts in the past.

Good Luck!

maddog350gt · 07-24-2008, 05:59 PM

Dave;

According to Gortz's book on Luger markings, the German military started marking toggle pins between WWI and WWII. I don't have the book here at work so I can't give you the specific date but I think it was 1933.

My guess is the gun you have had the wrong numbered pin in it (common on war trophy lugers; the first two "all matching" guns I bought had mis marked toggle pins). I am not sure if this is because GI's mixed them up where comparing guns, or if this was common due to field-stripping and cleaning in the German Army; probably some of both. At some point one of the owners of the gun replaced it with an unmarked WWI pin. At least it doesn't have a different number on it, but to be correct for that year it should have the last two digits of the serial number or the 42 replacement marking Tom A indicated. Some over sized parts used in WWI had markings to indicate it was oversized 0.1, 0.2, etc.

Thanks,
Bob M.

Dave Sanders · 07-24-2008, 06:06 PM

I will check with Tom H. Thanks to you all.
Dave

arabitogu · 07-25-2008, 07:32 AM

Hi Dave,

i have a byf 42 luger and the pin is numbered with the last two digit of the serial #.

Ciao

Alberto

07-23-2008, 09:24 PM	#1
Dave Sanders User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Hamer, Idaho Posts: 295 Thanks: 28 Thanked 56 Times in 28 Posts	1942 unmarked toggle pin I have a nice 1942 BYF with all matching numbers that are supposed to be matched , except the toggle pin. It is blank but looks proper in every way to other toggle pins side by side. I guess this may be a dumb question, I hope not, but what could be a reason the toggle pin is not marked? I wondered if all toggle pins had to be and were marked? I wondered why anyone if it were the case, would switch it out. Does this just make it an unmatched shooter now? It is such a nice luger, but any thought or comments would be appreciated if you have similar guns or experiences. Thanks. Dave

07-23-2008, 09:56 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,051 Thanks: 1,119 Thanked 5,286 Times in 1,728 Posts	I do not know whether the pin is correct if it is unnumbered (WWII guns are not my area of interest in collecting). But anyone that would suggest that a nice collector grade Luger with an unnumbered toggle pin, even if it was supposed to be numbered, must be reduced to just shooter status should be led away to a nice quiet place where they won't hurt anybody. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-24-2008, 01:19 AM	#3
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,673 Thanks: 3,243 Thanked 2,658 Times in 988 Posts	Ron Amen ! Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

07-24-2008, 03:37 AM	#5
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	Dave, these pins can get worn out over time. If the pin was frequently fallen out of the receiver when it's apart from the frame, down to the former owners furry carpet, he may have slamed his fist on the table an replaced it with a 'tighter' one. As to non-matching, I agree with Ron and Bill. ..even if the pin was pink with green dot's, it would not place the Luger into shooter's category based only on that. __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

07-24-2008, 01:37 AM	#4
Dave Sanders User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Hamer, Idaho Posts: 295 Thanks: 28 Thanked 56 Times in 28 Posts	Thanks for the input. I would agree with what you said, but I'm sure many would think something like that has been messed with. That is what bugs me. Why would something like that be taken and replaced with a blank one? It doesn't make sense when all the other parts match. That is why I can't help but think that was the way it came. Is that something plausible or not with the 3rd Reich efficiency? Dave

07-24-2008, 08:24 AM	#6
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Original WWII Era German replacement pins should be "42" numbered. Otherwise, post war replacement. Tom A

07-24-2008, 02:58 PM	#7
Dave Sanders User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Hamer, Idaho Posts: 295 Thanks: 28 Thanked 56 Times in 28 Posts	Thank you for the replies. I'll have to keep an eye out for a marked toggle to get it back if ever possible. Dave

07-24-2008, 04:03 PM	#8
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	Hi Dave, if you are going to look for a new toggle main pin, make sure it is numbered with the last two digits of the Luger serial number. For instance if your S/N is 1234h (The alpha-numeric on the front of the frame), then the proper pin would be numbered "34". You might check with Tom Heller (Lugerdoc). He has helped me out with pistol parts in the past. Good Luck!

07-24-2008, 05:59 PM	#9
maddog350gt User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Washougal WA Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Dave; According to Gortz's book on Luger markings, the German military started marking toggle pins between WWI and WWII. I don't have the book here at work so I can't give you the specific date but I think it was 1933. My guess is the gun you have had the wrong numbered pin in it (common on war trophy lugers; the first two "all matching" guns I bought had mis marked toggle pins). I am not sure if this is because GI's mixed them up where comparing guns, or if this was common due to field-stripping and cleaning in the German Army; probably some of both. At some point one of the owners of the gun replaced it with an unmarked WWI pin. At least it doesn't have a different number on it, but to be correct for that year it should have the last two digits of the serial number or the 42 replacement marking Tom A indicated. Some over sized parts used in WWI had markings to indicate it was oversized 0.1, 0.2, etc. Thanks, Bob M.

07-24-2008, 06:06 PM	#10
Dave Sanders User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Hamer, Idaho Posts: 295 Thanks: 28 Thanked 56 Times in 28 Posts	I will check with Tom H. Thanks to you all. Dave

07-25-2008, 07:32 AM	#11
arabitogu User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 59 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Dave, i have a byf 42 luger and the pin is numbered with the last two digit of the serial #. Ciao Alberto