Very Rare Piece...

Pete Ebbink · 07-13-2005, 12:54 PM

1916-dated byf Black Widow arty...quite rare...gotta have...

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=6809993

mauro · 07-13-2005, 01:53 PM

Unfortunately this very rare variation is not present in my book. I will add it in the future release.

pipeman45 · 07-13-2005, 06:12 PM

I wouldn't mind adding an Artillery to my shooters some day. But I think I'll let this one go to someone else.Being that it's SO rare I would be afraid to shoot it!

OldFalGuy · 07-13-2005, 06:45 PM

I don't know boo about rarity of this pistol but with the mismatch AND great shape I would suspect its a complete redo unless convinced otherwise.

drbuster · 07-13-2005, 07:03 PM

I GUESS it's a good thing (at least in wartime), that parts are interchangeable!

Imperial Arms · 07-13-2005, 08:10 PM

Very rare? I don't think so! How can a 'byf' (Mauser) toggle be on an imperial LP-08 with a dated chamber? In my opinion, this Luger is a mismatch and only worth as much as a 'shooter'.

Albert

Pete Ebbink · 07-13-2005, 08:26 PM

Hi Albert,

I think you missed my little joke (I need to find a good tongue-in-cheek emoticon...)...it is just a nice shooter...maybe worth in the USA $ 1100 or so...

They are listing a mint 1917 Arty for $ 2400 on their web site :

http://www.tuttlesgunstore.com/inventoryi/

" #14468 Luger P08, 1917 DWM artillery, 9mm, mint. $2,400 ""

Pete Ebbink · 07-13-2005, 08:51 PM

Here is a tongue-in-cheek emoticon :

Big Norm · 07-14-2005, 01:21 AM

Pete,
I am glad that you found the Tough-and-Cheek emotion. It gave me a chance to pick my jaw off of the floor.
Big Norm

mauro · 07-14-2005, 01:57 PM

Guys,
It could be one of the secret guns introduced by Hitler at the end of WWII...

Please Pete and me, we were simply joking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OldFalGuy · 07-15-2005, 03:47 AM

So just so this beginner is clear we have a WWI upper with a WWII toggle since they didn't mark them that way except in WWII or is it also that Mauser didn't make Imperial's, it was mainly Erfurt?? Right? and someone else I thought... Not a bad looking pistol though. I am still on the lookout for a real nice straight matched up artillery and stock.

George Anderson · 07-15-2005, 09:12 AM

OldFalGuy,

the pistol is, as you note, a parts gun. Might I suggest that if you are on the hunt for a correct LP08 that you first get a copy of Still's "Imperial Lugers". This book will give you a concise picture of what is and what isn't correct, also rarity, characteristics, etc.

Pete Ebbink · 07-15-2005, 01:57 PM

Hi TAC,

There were some Mauser LP-08's in the 1930's and later..see Mauro's posting back from the 8/2004 time frame :

" The production of Imperial LP08 finished at the end of WWI. Mauser started again the production in the 1930 mainly for export (Stoeger).
In 1936, Mauser produced LP08 for Persian and Siam countries. The Siam model is marked 1936 on the chamber.
In the 1945, under French control, Mauser firm produced again a few LP08 (up to November 1947 when Mauser firm in Oberndorf was destroyed).
Note that the Siam and French models are the only one with the Mauser banner. "

Regards,

Pete...

mauro · 07-16-2005, 04:38 PM

Hello OldFalGuy,
I think that if you have a look at my web site you can find a complete introduction to the Luger Artillery models, from the Imperial model up to the Mauser LP08 commemorative.
There is also an article that I wrote years ago for an Italian magazine concerning the history of this beautiful model.
Have a look at let me know.
Ciao
Mauro

OldFalGuy · 07-17-2005, 01:52 AM

George & Mauro, thanks for the tip I know I have a ton of reading to do and appreciate the heads up on the book titles. Mauro I am headed to your site now.

Thanks guys.

Mark

07-13-2005, 01:53 PM	#2
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 350 Times in 129 Posts	Unfortunately this very rare variation is not present in my book. I will add it in the future release. __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

07-13-2005, 06:12 PM	#3
pipeman45 User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kentucky Posts: 539 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I wouldn't mind adding an Artillery to my shooters some day. But I think I'll let this one go to someone else.Being that it's SO rare I would be afraid to shoot it! __________________ Dave

07-14-2005, 01:57 PM	#10
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 350 Times in 129 Posts	Guys, It could be one of the secret guns introduced by Hitler at the end of WWII... Please Pete and me, we were simply joking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

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07-13-2005, 12:54 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Very Rare Piece... 1916-dated byf Black Widow arty...quite rare...gotta have... http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=6809993

07-13-2005, 06:45 PM	#4
OldFalGuy User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I don't know boo about rarity of this pistol but with the mismatch AND great shape I would suspect its a complete redo unless convinced otherwise.

07-13-2005, 07:03 PM	#5
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	I GUESS it's a good thing (at least in wartime), that parts are interchangeable!

07-13-2005, 08:10 PM	#6
Imperial Arms Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malta, EU Posts: 579 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Very rare? I don't think so! How can a 'byf' (Mauser) toggle be on an imperial LP-08 with a dated chamber? In my opinion, this Luger is a mismatch and only worth as much as a 'shooter'. Albert

07-13-2005, 08:26 PM	#7
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Hi Albert, I think you missed my little joke (I need to find a good tongue-in-cheek emoticon...)...it is just a nice shooter...maybe worth in the USA $ 1100 or so... They are listing a mint 1917 Arty for $ 2400 on their web site : http://www.tuttlesgunstore.com/inventoryi/ " #14468 Luger P08, 1917 DWM artillery, 9mm, mint. $2,400 ""

07-13-2005, 08:51 PM	#8
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Here is a tongue-in-cheek emoticon :

07-14-2005, 01:21 AM	#9
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Pete, I am glad that you found the Tough-and-Cheek emotion. It gave me a chance to pick my jaw off of the floor. Big Norm

07-15-2005, 03:47 AM	#11
OldFalGuy User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	So just so this beginner is clear we have a WWI upper with a WWII toggle since they didn't mark them that way except in WWII or is it also that Mauser didn't make Imperial's, it was mainly Erfurt?? Right? and someone else I thought... Not a bad looking pistol though. I am still on the lookout for a real nice straight matched up artillery and stock.

07-15-2005, 09:12 AM	#12
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	OldFalGuy, the pistol is, as you note, a parts gun. Might I suggest that if you are on the hunt for a correct LP08 that you first get a copy of Still's "Imperial Lugers". This book will give you a concise picture of what is and what isn't correct, also rarity, characteristics, etc.

07-15-2005, 01:57 PM	#13
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Hi TAC, There were some Mauser LP-08's in the 1930's and later..see Mauro's posting back from the 8/2004 time frame : " The production of Imperial LP08 finished at the end of WWI. Mauser started again the production in the 1930 mainly for export (Stoeger). In 1936, Mauser produced LP08 for Persian and Siam countries. The Siam model is marked 1936 on the chamber. In the 1945, under French control, Mauser firm produced again a few LP08 (up to November 1947 when Mauser firm in Oberndorf was destroyed). Note that the Siam and French models are the only one with the Mauser banner. " Regards, Pete...

07-16-2005, 04:38 PM	#14
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 350 Times in 129 Posts	Hello OldFalGuy, I think that if you have a look at my web site you can find a complete introduction to the Luger Artillery models, from the Imperial model up to the Mauser LP08 commemorative. There is also an article that I wrote years ago for an Italian magazine concerning the history of this beautiful model. Have a look at let me know. Ciao Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

07-17-2005, 01:52 AM	#15
OldFalGuy User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	George & Mauro, thanks for the tip I know I have a ton of reading to do and appreciate the heads up on the book titles. Mauro I am headed to your site now. Thanks guys. Mark