Numrich Arms Faking Stamps

[Edward Tinker]

I saw this on gunboards and went and looked it up at Numrich.

Waffenamt Stamp - Small Size
Mauser
Hand Stamp, German Waffenamt - Use On Metal Wood Or Leather Surfaces. 3Staggered Lines W/ Crossing V And Letter/Number Series. New, Hardened Steel
Item No. 811650
Retail Price: $49.95

I am afraid that a company selling fakery stamps like this is wrong. Yes there might be a market for it, but should it be so easy for Bob the Smoh to buy something like this?

There is also a Hand Stamp, German Waffenamt (says Nazi Eagle on the description you click on) and one for the Garand S.A. E.McF. Stock Cartouche.

Ed

[John Sabato]

Ed, I agree with you that this is ethically wrong... but unfortuately, it is not a crime to possess, sell or counterfeit these items.

Now the USE of these items to create phoney antiquities with the intent to sell them would be considered FRAUD which IS A CRIME in most jurisdictions around the world... and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Once again, unfortunately, to create such antiquities for your own possession and use is not a crime... and if it were, I think it would be violation of individual freedom that we treasure in this country...at least IMHO

[Edward Tinker]

But this is where we all get lazy.

If we write to the company and ask why they are carrying items that destroy collector items, and they get enough flak, then they will quit carrying the item.

But, the average person will never write the letter, or their congressman, or vote and then bitch about it later.

Ed

[Heydrich]

Ed, John, I’ve seen numerous examples of these fake stamps being used. The small waffenamt is marked E/63 (Mauser Oberndorf and Brno) and the large one is about the right size for the Kar.98k stock cartouche. But Bubba can be a real dumbass sometimes, so they are generally easy to spot, even if he uses them in the correct manner. The constant mistake I see is him using that large amt to try to fake the military firing proofs on a swapped out barrel of a K, when the Germans used a small proof in RL. This is especially prevalent with fake SS rifles. Bubba will yank off the old barrel (most times you can see the scorch marks on the receiver where he ripped it off), and install a new barrel with fake totes and military proofs. He probably discovers too late that the SS used commercial proofs for all pre-1943 rifles. I once saw a wooden stock were someone had used one of these hokum stamps to burn the cartouche on. That still perplexes me to this day. Besides Numrich, some clown in the Midwest sells E/280 (Erma) and E/140 (FN) stamps, as well as comical totes, but you have to go to a gun show to get these. The fake E/number inspector marks are usually easy to spot as well, unless Bubba has figured out the old trick of inserting some ash or old metal shavings into the new virgin stamp and re-striking it.

Most fakers seem to like to use period parts from several beater rifles to assemble a “matching” one instead of grinding off and re-stamping waffenamts. This however, leads to other comical situations were you can for instance see the hammer marks on the rear sight base. If they are lucky, all they have to do is bugger with a mismatched bolt, but it still seems to take a great deal of skill to get this whole odious process right.

But there is definitely a cottage industry Waffenfabrik USA out there churning out hokum Lugers and K98k rifles at a spurious rate. I haven’t seem them, I’m sure someone has made fake E/655, byf, and 41/42 stamps so everyone and their dog can have a black widow Luger, as well as its cousin the wood-griped Gestapo Luger. One day we’ll probably see a KGB Mosin-Nagant rifle.

Buyer beware!

[colcolombo]

Ed
I looked these stamps up on Numrich web site.
They are listed as Item 811650 for $49.95 and Item 811660 for $72.00.
They have a "Comments" link to click on and tell them whatever you want. I sent them a few choice words and told them what I thought. I didn't mince any words either. Perhaps some other forum members could do the same. It's easier than writing a letter.
Joe Hill

[lugerholsterrepair]

Ed, Heydrich makes some good points and I agree with you too. I have been offered every stamp known to man out of Germany for many years. They are currently available almost anywhere. I guess I am trying to say they are available for anyone who wants them. Our efforts put into learning and our network of honest people to deal with are what protects us, it's those who are novices that that will get burned. If you are goint to lay out the big bucks I would suggest you do your homework...I will post my displeasure with Numrich on their comments box as Colcolumbo suggests though... I vote and write public officials I disagree with and am a member of the NRA! Jerry Burney

[Edward Tinker]

Agreed Jerry, I am not active enough politically, and yes, I am an NRA member also. If you own guns, you should be a member, although extreme at times, they keep the rabid dogs at bay, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Ed

[Herb]

Numrich is also advertising these stamps, with photos, on page 83 of Gun List, 1 Aug issue. If I recall somewhere on this board, or perhaps the old board, someone posted a pic of a whole lot of faking stamps that someone had for sale, they have been around for a long time for those that stoop that low.