Toggle Pin Tolerances

mm · 08-11-2003, 01:36 AM

What is the range of acceptable tolerances for the excessive space around the pin? How many 1000ths of an inch? What are the dangers or likely problems of having a loose fitting pin?

thank you!

mm

H.P.Langenbach · 08-13-2003, 01:50 PM

Hi mjm,
I have just referred to the drawings released on 4th November 1913 by the "KGL. Preussisches Infanterie KonstruktionsbÃ?Â¼ro" this is the infantry design office, responsible for the production of the Luger and following I can give you the dimensions of the toggle pins and holes. The dimensions are given in Millimeter, divide the figures by 25.4 and you will get the dimensions in inches.

Rear Toggle link: pin dia 7.18 -0.05, hole dia 7.2 0.05, gives a min tolerance of 0.02mm and a max tolerance of 0.12mm.
Front toggle link: pin dia 5 -0.05mm, hole dia 5.2 + 0.1mm. min tolerance 0.10mm, max tolerance 0.25mm
Center bolt: pin dia 6 -0.05, hole dia 6 + 0.08, min tolerance 0.0mm, max tolerance 0.13mm.
Coming back to your question regarding the acceptable tolerances,I guess that exessive wear may cause malfunction of the toggle only.
Hope I could help you
kind regards from germany
Peter

mm · 08-16-2003, 05:51 PM

Thank you H.P.,

I measured the clearance and determined that the clearance was 27 hundreths of an inch. If I did my math correctly that equals 1.06 mm. Does that seem right? mm

mm · 08-16-2003, 05:57 PM

Is 27 hundreths of an inch (1.06mm) acceptable "safe" tolerance for the rear axle pin? mm

Frank · 08-16-2003, 09:41 PM

mm, I would check your mathematics and/or your measurement technique. According to H.P., the maximum toggle to receiver pin tolerance is .12mm. Then, .12/25.4 = 0.0047 inches. This is the type clearance you should expect

ViggoG · 08-16-2003, 11:26 PM

I very much agree with Frank! <img border="0" alt="[nono]" title="" src="graemlins/nono.gif" />
My 1906 AE measures .0015" clearance, and this seems a bit free, in as much as the pin will fall out if turned flange down.
I would estimate that the pin should never be looser than .004" or .1 mm .
39.3701" = 1 meter, .0393" = 1 mm,
.0039" = .1 mm, .0004" = .01 mm
I would not repeatedly fire any Luger with a pin clearance of .2 mm or .0078", Except under Test Lab. Conditions. (which places me in the next room) <img border="0" alt="[crying]" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" />
ViggoG
PS: After many trys I think I finally have the figures correct. <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" />

H.P.Langenbach · 08-17-2003, 07:09 AM

Hi Mike,
assuming your measurement of 27 hundredths of an inch is correct this comes to 0.027 in inÃ?Â*Ã?Â*decimals,right? Multiplied o.o27 by 25.4 equals to 0.6858Millimeter which is more then 5 times the max allowed tolerance of 0.12Millimeter as per the drawings of 1913.
So please check your measurement or it indicates that either the pin or the hole or both are totally worn out.
regards
Peter

Frank · 08-17-2003, 12:06 PM

H.P., 27 hundredths of an inch is 0.27 inches which is way off reason. Also 27 thousandths of an inch is 0.027 inches, which is also way off reason. Now it could be 2.7 thousandths of an inch, which is 0.0027 inches and within tolerance. The big question is, just what is the number!!!

mm · 08-19-2003, 03:34 AM

Thank you everyone for the lesson. Sorry for the confusion - the correct number is 0.0027 inches which puts my luger within tolerence. mm

Lugerdoc · 08-19-2003, 11:27 AM

I have several original oversized PO8 toggle axels marked "0.05, 0.10, 0.15 and 0.20" thousandth mm. I've never found a luger that would accept one of these marked over 0.05. Th

08-11-2003, 01:36 AM	#1
mm User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SFBAY Posts: 82 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Toggle Pin Tolerances What is the range of acceptable tolerances for the excessive space around the pin? How many 1000ths of an inch? What are the dangers or likely problems of having a loose fitting pin? thank you! mm __________________ mjm

08-16-2003, 05:51 PM	#3
mm User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SFBAY Posts: 82 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you H.P., I measured the clearance and determined that the clearance was 27 hundreths of an inch. If I did my math correctly that equals 1.06 mm. Does that seem right? mm __________________ mjm

08-16-2003, 05:57 PM	#4
mm User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SFBAY Posts: 82 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Is 27 hundreths of an inch (1.06mm) acceptable "safe" tolerance for the rear axle pin? mm __________________ mjm

08-19-2003, 03:34 AM	#9
mm User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SFBAY Posts: 82 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you everyone for the lesson. Sorry for the confusion - the correct number is 0.0027 inches which puts my luger within tolerence. mm __________________ mjm

08-19-2003, 11:27 AM	#10
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	I have several original oversized PO8 toggle axels marked "0.05, 0.10, 0.15 and 0.20" thousandth mm. I've never found a luger that would accept one of these marked over 0.05. Th __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

08-13-2003, 01:50 PM	#2
H.P.Langenbach User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi mjm, I have just referred to the drawings released on 4th November 1913 by the "KGL. Preussisches Infanterie KonstruktionsbÃ?Â¼ro" this is the infantry design office, responsible for the production of the Luger and following I can give you the dimensions of the toggle pins and holes. The dimensions are given in Millimeter, divide the figures by 25.4 and you will get the dimensions in inches. Rear Toggle link: pin dia 7.18 -0.05, hole dia 7.2 0.05, gives a min tolerance of 0.02mm and a max tolerance of 0.12mm. Front toggle link: pin dia 5 -0.05mm, hole dia 5.2 + 0.1mm. min tolerance 0.10mm, max tolerance 0.25mm Center bolt: pin dia 6 -0.05, hole dia 6 + 0.08, min tolerance 0.0mm, max tolerance 0.13mm. Coming back to your question regarding the acceptable tolerances,I guess that exessive wear may cause malfunction of the toggle only. Hope I could help you kind regards from germany Peter

08-16-2003, 09:41 PM	#5
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	mm, I would check your mathematics and/or your measurement technique. According to H.P., the maximum toggle to receiver pin tolerance is .12mm. Then, .12/25.4 = 0.0047 inches. This is the type clearance you should expect

08-16-2003, 11:26 PM	#6
ViggoG RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: South Side Virginia Posts: 534 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I very much agree with Frank! <img border="0" alt="[nono]" title="" src="graemlins/nono.gif" /> My 1906 AE measures .0015" clearance, and this seems a bit free, in as much as the pin will fall out if turned flange down. I would estimate that the pin should never be looser than .004" or .1 mm . 39.3701" = 1 meter, .0393" = 1 mm, .0039" = .1 mm, .0004" = .01 mm I would not repeatedly fire any Luger with a pin clearance of .2 mm or .0078", Except under Test Lab. Conditions. (which places me in the next room) <img border="0" alt="[crying]" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" /> ViggoG PS: After many trys I think I finally have the figures correct. <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" />

08-17-2003, 07:09 AM	#7
H.P.Langenbach User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Mike, assuming your measurement of 27 hundredths of an inch is correct this comes to 0.027 in inÃ?ÂÃ?Âdecimals,right? Multiplied o.o27 by 25.4 equals to 0.6858Millimeter which is more then 5 times the max allowed tolerance of 0.12Millimeter as per the drawings of 1913. So please check your measurement or it indicates that either the pin or the hole or both are totally worn out. regards Peter

08-17-2003, 12:06 PM	#8
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	H.P., 27 hundredths of an inch is 0.27 inches which is way off reason. Also 27 thousandths of an inch is 0.027 inches, which is also way off reason. Now it could be 2.7 thousandths of an inch, which is 0.0027 inches and within tolerance. The big question is, just what is the number!!!

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