Question on grip screws..

[BILL]

Upon looking at many pictures of Lugers, and held many up close, I am wondering about how standard was the practice of proofing on the grip screw? I know we had some excellent technical dialogue in the not too distant past regarding manufacturing processes and finishing procedures but what firms actually proofed the grip screws, what years was this prevalent and if you see a pistol without the proofs would this mean that they are add ons? Honestly, I have seen very few pistols with good original screws that were proofed. And what were the common years that they were fire blued as opposed to rust or dip blued? Since these items are the most commonly removed items it would be nice to know just what to look for in the line of 'good screws'.

[BILL]

If I had used the marvelous 'Search' feature on this site I would have found that Patrick actually gave me most of the info to this question on 3/12/2001. I wonder how many of us have really explored this feature? I would probably have posed that question differently if I had. But, I have a few more questions that always come up when I am nowhere near a computer.

[Thor]

i used it today, neat search feature! Thor

[Patrick]

I�´ve just re-blued a set of grip screws. It�´s fantastic how they suddenly turn that bright blue colour.

[Thor]

i assume you mean fire blue, aint it purty!

It been my observation the Erfurt inspector marked their grip screws until about 1917 and Simson all the way thru production. I leave the KH answer to Gibson and the other experts.

[Thor]

If you are talking fireblued, keep oil OFF, at least clenzoi to keep them that color. If you get a little oil on them, they will darken, it wont hurt the finish at all. A little alcohol or acetone on a qtip is all that is needed but becareful to keep that off the blued surfaced and grips. I know I am picky but that fire blue is too purty for it to look too dark. Thor

[Kyrie]

This really is something of a quibble, at least insofar as "old hand" collectors are concerned. But those new to Lugers may benefit from it...


"Proof marks" are placed on a firearm to indicate it was fired with ammunition deliberately overcharged to reveal any hidden flaws. There will be three proof marks on a Luger, assuming it has not been re-proofed after repair. These three proof marks will be on the barrel, barrel extension, and breech block.


"Inspection and acceptance marks" are placed on parts to indicate they have been inspected and found to be within tolerances as required by the manufacturer or by the buyer. The stamps in question here, on the grip screws, as inspection and acceptance marks.


"Property marks" are applied by the purchaser, and indicate ownership.


Collectors tend to call all these marks "proof marks" when talking to each other, even though this is really both incorrect and misleading. But then collectors understand what's meant, so no harm is done. But a new collector overhearing these exchanges may come away with a mistaken idea of what was said.


So just a clarification, with not offense or criticism intended.


Best regards,


Kyrie

[Frank]

Many use the term "proof marks" to include all the identifiers. This was, fortunately, pointed out to me a long time ago, but is worth while information to restate.

[BILL]

I like the fireblued, but for some reason it doesn't seem too durable. I have fireblued some parts that came out looking like dark blue aluminum foil (a little too 'Royal Blue'). I really like the shade of deep blue-violet just before it starts to turn gray. I have had to polish off some firebluing in the past and rust blue the parts just because they had a little too much 'sparkle' to them. I have a pretty high end German made convection oven that actually displays the proper temp.

My observations have been the same as Tom's. I will also add that in my experience, the 1917 and 1918 Erfurts did not completley conform with the earlier mandate for inspection marks in regards to other small parts, such as the connecting axle pin and perhaps some other parts (cain't remember).

Kyrie, I should have put quotes around "Proofed". If you read the text of my message, I do refer to them as inspector's (acceptance) marks. My appologies for confusion of any NEWBIES.

[Kyrie]

Hi Tom,


No apology necessary! Luger collectors (like collectors of all types, I presume) have their own language. Sometimes those new to collecting find that confusing, and I posted only to help any newbies along. No criticism of yourself or anyone else was intended.


Best regards,


Kyrie