Origin of Luger Animated Gif File?

John Sabato · 11-24-2003, 02:02 PM

Since the very birth of the Lugerforum... I have been attempting to determine the author of the animated gif file of a Luger that appears in our technical pages (and also below)...

I ask this question about once every year and since our ranks continue to grow, the chances that someone might know increases with time...If anyone knows the author or origin of this animation I would appreciate you notifying me via private message or just post a reply here.

THANKS!

Pete Ebbink · 11-24-2003, 02:12 PM

Hello John,

Chuck Whittaker has a similar GIF file running on his web site for a Borchardt pistol.

Maybe ask him and see if he is/was behind the luger animation creation...

I do not have an email for Mr. Whittaker..only his web site with a contact link :

http://landofborchardt.com/

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

John Sabato · 11-24-2003, 03:38 PM

Thanks Pete... While they are both animations... they are not very similar... regardless, I have just sent the website owner an email inquiry and invited him to stop by here and visit when he gets the chance...

Maybe I'll get lucky and find an answer...

Jerry Harris · 12-09-2003, 11:17 PM

Any chance the animation is connected to Henrotin and his E-Books?

BTW, when opened in JPEG View the graphics are accompanied by message: "This animated GIF file was constructed using Ulead GIF Animator Trial Version, visit us at http://ulead.com to find out more.USSPCMT"

John Sabato · 12-10-2003, 07:38 AM

Thanks for the input Jerry, but I know for certain (because I asked him a long time ago) that the animation is not by Henrotin. Gerard uses Corel Draw for his illustrations and animations. He has a very cool animation of the Luger firing sequence that is on a floppy disk that is an optional purchase when you buy his printed book "La Connaissance du Luger"

This animation was created by the much more sophisticated 3D graphics tool from Ulead that you indicated.

Unfortunately, the author didn't record his identification inside the file...

Anyone else got any ideas on who might have created this animation? I figure that it has to be someone that likes both Lugers and Computers... so sooner or later he or she should show up here at the forum...

One of the reasons that I want to find out who did it is that there is an error in the sequence shown in the animation...

Anyone care to venture a guess of what the mistake is?

We shall see just how observant the forum members are and how knowledgeable they are about the mechanical operation of the Luger...

policeluger · 12-10-2003, 10:26 AM

The miatake, could it be that the bullet has not left the barrel and the toggle has already started its recoil? that and its missing a sear safety.

John Sabato · 12-10-2003, 10:42 AM

The mistake does have to do with recoil, yes, but there is a step between the discharge of the gun and the reloading cycle.

The safety bar is not in the animation because I think it would block too much of the action being viewed. The presence of the safety bar is not required for firing the Luger... The sear doesn't appear to be in the animation, but I think for the same reason as the safety... it would block too much of the internal action.

The mistake would be obvious even if you couldn't see inside the gun...

policeluger · 12-10-2003, 11:20 AM

Thumb safety lever in wrong position to fire, it is in the safe position?.

John Sabato · 12-10-2003, 12:10 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by policeluger:
Thumb safety lever in wrong position to fire, it is in the safe position?.<hr /></blockquote>I was wrong and you are definitely correct on this point. The safety lever and safety bar are both present and they are in the SAFE position so the gun shouldn't fire... but that is not the mistake in animation that I was looking for...

the mistake is motion related...

Ron Wood · 12-10-2003, 01:02 PM

In the animation the barrel/receiver group continues to move to the rear throughout the motion of the bolt/toggle action. Actually, the recoil lug on the bottom of the receiver would contact the frame and stop rearward movement of the receiver when the action is approximately 3/4 open. This is just after the ejector has contacted the spent cartridge base and ejection has started. The toggle then continues to the rear to eject the cartridge.

I think the safety lever was left in the safe position to make it easier to see the action of the toggle coupling link and bellcrank.

John Sabato · 12-10-2003, 01:44 PM

You left out the one detail I am looking for Ron. The toggle wouldn't even open the way this Luger is moving...

The problem is that the toggle is opening without the toggle knobs striking the frame ramps or EARS... Unless this happens the toggle should remain locked closed upon firing... If this were not so... our dear friend and mastercraftsman THOR would probably have lost a finger when he attempted the firing pin drop on a live cartridge in only the upper assembly...

The mere thought of that test makes me nervous...
DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME KIDS!

This Luger is really emulating the loading process rather than shooting... and the simulation of firing was probably an afterthought by the graphic artist...

Ron Wood · 12-10-2003, 03:36 PM

Good catch John. The devil is in the details.

Jerry Harris · 12-11-2003, 11:01 PM

Very good call, John. It looks like the animator had a Luger to examine and disassemble, but never got clued in on the actual firing sequence. The motion shown follows approximately what happens during HAND cycling -- the knurled knobs never strike the ears because the receiver is being pried (levered) back as the extended tail of the rear toggle link works against the back of the frame.

As you say, during firing the entire cannon recoils and the whole point of the design is that the toggle can't trip to unlock the breech until the knobs strike the ears (and the slug is on its way). It's easy to see how an inexperienced person could assume that the hand cocking sequence was the same as the firing sequence -- overlooking the rest of the story.

John Sabato · 12-12-2003, 01:27 PM

I would love for the originator of the animation to update it to the correct sequence, have the gun expend the entire magazine of cartridges and then lock open...

I would also like the animation to be larger if possible... while I can stretch it to a larger size for display, it gets fuzzy due to pixel resolution issues...

I have a surprise in the works regarding animation... I am awaiting the author's permission to post it... You guys will just have to wait and see

Johnny C. Kitchens · 12-12-2003, 10:38 PM

Must be tough to get the animation correct. I noticed the animation used in the "Tales of the Gun" The Luger episode isn't correct in some points...

11-24-2003, 02:02 PM	#1
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Origin of Luger Animated Gif File? Since the very birth of the Lugerforum... I have been attempting to determine the author of the animated gif file of a Luger that appears in our technical pages (and also below)... I ask this question about once every year and since our ranks continue to grow, the chances that someone might know increases with time...If anyone knows the author or origin of this animation I would appreciate you notifying me via private message or just post a reply here. THANKS! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-24-2003, 03:38 PM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Thanks Pete... While they are both animations... they are not very similar... regardless, I have just sent the website owner an email inquiry and invited him to stop by here and visit when he gets the chance... Maybe I'll get lucky and find an answer... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-10-2003, 07:38 AM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Thanks for the input Jerry, but I know for certain (because I asked him a long time ago) that the animation is not by Henrotin. Gerard uses Corel Draw for his illustrations and animations. He has a very cool animation of the Luger firing sequence that is on a floppy disk that is an optional purchase when you buy his printed book "La Connaissance du Luger" This animation was created by the much more sophisticated 3D graphics tool from Ulead that you indicated. Unfortunately, the author didn't record his identification inside the file... Anyone else got any ideas on who might have created this animation? I figure that it has to be someone that likes both Lugers and Computers... so sooner or later he or she should show up here at the forum... One of the reasons that I want to find out who did it is that there is an error in the sequence shown in the animation... Anyone care to venture a guess of what the mistake is? We shall see just how observant the forum members are and how knowledgeable they are about the mechanical operation of the Luger... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-10-2003, 10:42 AM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	The mistake does have to do with recoil, yes, but there is a step between the discharge of the gun and the reloading cycle. The safety bar is not in the animation because I think it would block too much of the action being viewed. The presence of the safety bar is not required for firing the Luger... The sear doesn't appear to be in the animation, but I think for the same reason as the safety... it would block too much of the internal action. The mistake would be obvious even if you couldn't see inside the gun... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-10-2003, 12:10 PM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by policeluger: <strong>Thumb safety lever in wrong position to fire, it is in the safe position?.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I was wrong and you are definitely correct on this point. The safety lever and safety bar are both present and they are in the SAFE position so the gun shouldn't fire... but that is not the mistake in animation that I was looking for... the mistake is motion related... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-24-2003, 02:12 PM	#2
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello John, Chuck Whittaker has a similar GIF file running on his web site for a Borchardt pistol. Maybe ask him and see if he is/was behind the luger animation creation... I do not have an email for Mr. Whittaker..only his web site with a contact link : http://landofborchardt.com/ Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

12-09-2003, 11:17 PM	#4
Jerry Harris User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 64 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Any chance the animation is connected to Henrotin and his E-Books? BTW, when opened in JPEG View the graphics are accompanied by message: "This animated GIF file was constructed using Ulead GIF Animator Trial Version, visit us at http://ulead.com to find out more.USSPCMT"

12-10-2003, 10:26 AM	#6
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	The miatake, could it be that the bullet has not left the barrel and the toggle has already started its recoil? that and its missing a sear safety.

12-10-2003, 11:20 AM	#8
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Thumb safety lever in wrong position to fire, it is in the safe position?.

12-10-2003, 01:02 PM	#10
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	In the animation the barrel/receiver group continues to move to the rear throughout the motion of the bolt/toggle action. Actually, the recoil lug on the bottom of the receiver would contact the frame and stop rearward movement of the receiver when the action is approximately 3/4 open. This is just after the ejector has contacted the spent cartridge base and ejection has started. The toggle then continues to the rear to eject the cartridge. I think the safety lever was left in the safe position to make it easier to see the action of the toggle coupling link and bellcrank. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-10-2003, 01:44 PM	#11
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	You left out the one detail I am looking for Ron. The toggle wouldn't even open the way this Luger is moving... The problem is that the toggle is opening without the toggle knobs striking the frame ramps or EARS... Unless this happens the toggle should remain locked closed upon firing... If this were not so... our dear friend and mastercraftsman THOR would probably have lost a finger when he attempted the firing pin drop on a live cartridge in only the upper assembly... The mere thought of that test makes me nervous... DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME KIDS! This Luger is really emulating the loading process rather than shooting... and the simulation of firing was probably an afterthought by the graphic artist... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-10-2003, 03:36 PM	#12
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Good catch John. The devil is in the details. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-11-2003, 11:01 PM	#13
Jerry Harris User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 64 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Very good call, John. It looks like the animator had a Luger to examine and disassemble, but never got clued in on the actual firing sequence. The motion shown follows approximately what happens during HAND cycling -- the knurled knobs never strike the ears because the receiver is being pried (levered) back as the extended tail of the rear toggle link works against the back of the frame. As you say, during firing the entire cannon recoils and the whole point of the design is that the toggle can't trip to unlock the breech until the knobs strike the ears (and the slug is on its way). It's easy to see how an inexperienced person could assume that the hand cocking sequence was the same as the firing sequence -- overlooking the rest of the story.

12-12-2003, 01:27 PM	#14
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	I would love for the originator of the animation to update it to the correct sequence, have the gun expend the entire magazine of cartridges and then lock open... I would also like the animation to be larger if possible... while I can stretch it to a larger size for display, it gets fuzzy due to pixel resolution issues... I have a surprise in the works regarding animation... I am awaiting the author's permission to post it... You guys will just have to wait and see __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-12-2003, 10:38 PM	#15
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	Must be tough to get the animation correct. I noticed the animation used in the "Tales of the Gun" The Luger episode isn't correct in some points... __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens