Luger 4mmM20 conversion kit ?

pisto · 04-13-2003, 10:18 AM

Hello, need some information about the 4mmM20 conversion kit. was it stored in a wood box originally? which parts elst did it contain?
Who is the proud owner of such a rare item and can help me with pictures ore something?
Do this kit only contain the barrel and screws ore comes it with loading cardridges and compleete toggle such as the Erma .22 conversion kits?

Lugerdoc · 04-14-2003, 10:19 AM

Pisto, These 4mm Lothor Walther luger kits generally consisted of the barrel liner, retaining nut and several dummy 9mm cartridges for inserting the 4mms like primers in a green cardboard box. Strickly single shot, and you would have to pull toggle to rechamber each round. Tom H.

John Sabato · 04-14-2003, 12:06 PM

I know at least one of these devices have sold on eBay in the last 60 days or so. If you can fing the auction ad, you might be able to contact the seller to see if he had any more...

Here is the photo from the auction:

pisto · 04-14-2003, 02:22 PM

Thanks to You both, that helps! IÃ?Â´m asking of the background to purchase a P08 Police muzzle cover, which I would like to compleete with a conversion barrel. Books told me that the Police muzzle cover for cleaning rods have been in use for that conversion kit also.

pisto · 04-16-2003, 11:03 AM

Hello, just found out something more about the conversion kits for Lugers (Armorers Book: Karl Fischer - "Waffentechnischer Leitfaden fÃ?Â¼r die Ordnungspolizei" 1944) :
There have been 2 different variations of konversion kits existing in that small caliber.

Old Style:
the one, John Sabato showed in the picture above!
The barrel have to inserted from the muzzle and have to be fixed with the screw while loading and shooting. To load the chamber a special loading tood is required (shown at Johns picture) the loading spoon! Ejection is possible with a special "needle" which can also be used as cleaning rod.

New Style:
a muzzle cover (was originally in service to protect the muzzle while cleaning the barrel with a rod ore a chain) is needed.
1rst the Luger have to be cocked and safed, the ammo is in the chamber of the conversion kit barrel while placed into the original Luger barrel from the muzzle.
The muzzle cover have to be turned now about 15 degrees to allow the whole system a tight connection by using the front sight .
After firing the muzzle cover is to loosen again, the conversion kit barrel can be removed and new ammo can be loaded.

The ammo is been called "Zielmunition 20" (today available as 4mmM20 cantral fire)
The ammo have been delivered without the bullets - bullets have been fixed right bevore using by pressing them onto the mouth of the case. It was not alowed to keep ready installed ammo
Target distance have been 10 meters.
Shooting at a distance of 5 meters, the bullet will go 8 milimeters into soft wood. Max. bullet range is 120 meters.
The conversion kits have to be marked with the gun number in which they have been adjusted.

regards

pisto · 04-27-2003, 01:17 PM

Had the chance to purchase a 4mm conversion kit again, this is the one which should be loaded from the muzzle every single shot by pulling the barrel out of the gun and eiject with the cleaning rod.
The loading tool (spoon) is not for that conversion kit, I supose? Can anybody tell me if it is original??

04-13-2003, 10:18 AM	#1
pisto User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 228 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Luger 4mmM20 conversion kit ? Hello, need some information about the 4mmM20 conversion kit. was it stored in a wood box originally? which parts elst did it contain? Who is the proud owner of such a rare item and can help me with pictures ore something? Do this kit only contain the barrel and screws ore comes it with loading cardridges and compleete toggle such as the Erma .22 conversion kits?

04-14-2003, 10:19 AM	#2
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Pisto, These 4mm Lothor Walther luger kits generally consisted of the barrel liner, retaining nut and several dummy 9mm cartridges for inserting the 4mms like primers in a green cardboard box. Strickly single shot, and you would have to pull toggle to rechamber each round. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

04-14-2003, 12:06 PM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,098 Posts	I know at least one of these devices have sold on eBay in the last 60 days or so. If you can fing the auction ad, you might be able to contact the seller to see if he had any more... Here is the photo from the auction: __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-14-2003, 02:22 PM	#4
pisto User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 228 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks to You both, that helps! IÃ?Â´m asking of the background to purchase a P08 Police muzzle cover, which I would like to compleete with a conversion barrel. Books told me that the Police muzzle cover for cleaning rods have been in use for that conversion kit also.

04-16-2003, 11:03 AM	#5
pisto User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 228 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello, just found out something more about the conversion kits for Lugers (Armorers Book: Karl Fischer - "Waffentechnischer Leitfaden fÃ?Â¼r die Ordnungspolizei" 1944) : There have been 2 different variations of konversion kits existing in that small caliber. Old Style: the one, John Sabato showed in the picture above! The barrel have to inserted from the muzzle and have to be fixed with the screw while loading and shooting. To load the chamber a special loading tood is required (shown at Johns picture) the loading spoon! Ejection is possible with a special "needle" which can also be used as cleaning rod. New Style: a muzzle cover (was originally in service to protect the muzzle while cleaning the barrel with a rod ore a chain) is needed. 1rst the Luger have to be cocked and safed, the ammo is in the chamber of the conversion kit barrel while placed into the original Luger barrel from the muzzle. The muzzle cover have to be turned now about 15 degrees to allow the whole system a tight connection by using the front sight . After firing the muzzle cover is to loosen again, the conversion kit barrel can be removed and new ammo can be loaded. The ammo is been called "Zielmunition 20" (today available as 4mmM20 cantral fire) The ammo have been delivered without the bullets - bullets have been fixed right bevore using by pressing them onto the mouth of the case. It was not alowed to keep ready installed ammo Target distance have been 10 meters. Shooting at a distance of 5 meters, the bullet will go 8 milimeters into soft wood. Max. bullet range is 120 meters. The conversion kits have to be marked with the gun number in which they have been adjusted. regards

04-27-2003, 01:17 PM	#6
pisto User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 228 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Had the chance to purchase a 4mm conversion kit again, this is the one which should be loaded from the muzzle every single shot by pulling the barrel out of the gun and eiject with the cleaning rod. The loading tool (spoon) is not for that conversion kit, I supose? Can anybody tell me if it is original??