41 byf

jimmiej · 08-09-2004, 11:49 PM

My first luger. Loose grips. After market magazines. Grips are wood. I'm not looking at the gun currently so this is from memory. Left side is marked eagle 655. Which is the best book to look up marks. Which grips/magazines would have been original? Is other info necessary? What makes a black widow other than plastic grips? Thanks in advance from a novice. Jim

Ron Smith · 08-10-2004, 12:28 AM

Jimmie, Welcome and congratulations. There is no escape. You'er hooked! The book you need is Third Reich Lugers by Jan Still. Go to www.stillsbooks.com . You can order it directly from him.
Frank or one of the other Third Reich Luger guys will chime in shortly.With specific info on your new addiction.

Ron

Frank · 08-10-2004, 10:26 AM

Hi Jim, welcome to the Luger Forum. Ron is correct. Jan Still's Third Reich Lugers will give you a good start.

To determine which grip and magazine type was original to your 41 byf we need to know the serial number, including the script letter if there is one. First make sure the pistol is unloaded!! Look on the front of the pistol on the frame for the serial number. Then just below the number there should be a letter, if there is one.

The Eagle-over-655 is known as a Waffenamt Mark or inspection mark. There should also be an Eagle-over-swastika which is a proof mark, and means the pistol was subjected to a test with over charged cartridges that produce a higher than standard pressure.

The term Black Widow was invented by a US Dealer to sell Lugers that had Black Bakelite Grips. There was no such official designation. Some 1941 and all 1942 byf Lugers might have been shipped with these Bakelite Grips. Today a Luger that has these grips and a black bottom magazine is known as a "Black Widow".

Let us know what you have and we'll try to help!!

BTW do all the parts have either numbers that match the front frame number or the last two digits of the front frame number?

jimmiej · 08-11-2004, 09:57 PM

I just got home. Sorry for the wait. There is a "Y" under the 4 digit serial number. All numbers match (40) except the sear(85) and there is no number on the ejector. The wood grips are loose. Inside the left grip I see a "0" and possibly a "1". There are other marks which I can't make out. Inside the right grip I see a "2", a "1" and an "S". On the right side of the frame eagle 655 twice and the proof mark swastica.Under the barrel is the seial number in front of a smaller 8 83. PO 8 xxx 9mm para. A.S. ALB VI. It has a dark black finish which is intact except for wear on edges. The finish is bright with areas of dull from poor care. There is no overt rust but there are areas of stepling? Let me know if you need any more info.

Frank · 08-12-2004, 09:32 AM

Hi Jimmie, First your Luger is an import and marked "PO 8 xxx 9mm para. A.S. ALB VI" to indicate this.

The pistol has parts from different Lugers, including the grips, which is probably the cause of the poor fit.

Your Luger, in the Y-Block, was shipped with either a pair of Black Bakelite or Wooden Grips and either a black plastic bottom or an aluminum botton that wasn't numbered.

The ejector shouldn't be numbered and the 8,83 is the dimension of the bore across the lands in millimeters.

Hope this helps.

08-09-2004, 11:49 PM	#1
jimmiej User Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 88 Thanks: 16 Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts	41 byf My first luger. Loose grips. After market magazines. Grips are wood. I'm not looking at the gun currently so this is from memory. Left side is marked eagle 655. Which is the best book to look up marks. Which grips/magazines would have been original? Is other info necessary? What makes a black widow other than plastic grips? Thanks in advance from a novice. Jim

08-10-2004, 12:28 AM	#2
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Jimmie, Welcome and congratulations. There is no escape. You'er hooked! The book you need is Third Reich Lugers by Jan Still. Go to www.stillsbooks.com . You can order it directly from him. Frank or one of the other Third Reich Luger guys will chime in shortly.With specific info on your new addiction. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

08-10-2004, 10:26 AM	#3
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Hi Jim, welcome to the Luger Forum. Ron is correct. Jan Still's Third Reich Lugers will give you a good start. To determine which grip and magazine type was original to your 41 byf we need to know the serial number, including the script letter if there is one. First make sure the pistol is unloaded!! Look on the front of the pistol on the frame for the serial number. Then just below the number there should be a letter, if there is one. The Eagle-over-655 is known as a Waffenamt Mark or inspection mark. There should also be an Eagle-over-swastika which is a proof mark, and means the pistol was subjected to a test with over charged cartridges that produce a higher than standard pressure. The term Black Widow was invented by a US Dealer to sell Lugers that had Black Bakelite Grips. There was no such official designation. Some 1941 and all 1942 byf Lugers might have been shipped with these Bakelite Grips. Today a Luger that has these grips and a black bottom magazine is known as a "Black Widow". Let us know what you have and we'll try to help!! BTW do all the parts have either numbers that match the front frame number or the last two digits of the front frame number?

08-11-2004, 09:57 PM	#4
jimmiej User Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 88 Thanks: 16 Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts	I just got home. Sorry for the wait. There is a "Y" under the 4 digit serial number. All numbers match (40) except the sear(85) and there is no number on the ejector. The wood grips are loose. Inside the left grip I see a "0" and possibly a "1". There are other marks which I can't make out. Inside the right grip I see a "2", a "1" and an "S". On the right side of the frame eagle 655 twice and the proof mark swastica.Under the barrel is the seial number in front of a smaller 8 83. PO 8 xxx 9mm para. A.S. ALB VI. It has a dark black finish which is intact except for wear on edges. The finish is bright with areas of dull from poor care. There is no overt rust but there are areas of stepling? Let me know if you need any more info.

08-12-2004, 09:32 AM	#5
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Hi Jimmie, First your Luger is an import and marked "PO 8 xxx 9mm para. A.S. ALB VI" to indicate this. The pistol has parts from different Lugers, including the grips, which is probably the cause of the poor fit. Your Luger, in the Y-Block, was shipped with either a pair of Black Bakelite or Wooden Grips and either a black plastic bottom or an aluminum botton that wasn't numbered. The ejector shouldn't be numbered and the 8,83 is the dimension of the bore across the lands in millimeters. Hope this helps.