Bundes Lugers?

mm · 01-22-2004, 12:27 AM

I know that after the war, the East German military and/or police had Lugers in their arsenal. But, can someone tell me if the West German military and/or police used them? And, if they did for how many years? Did they mark them in any way? What happened to all the West German Lugers? Did WWII soldiers and police keep them as personal property after the war?

Also, when did the East Germans mothball their Lugers?

Cheers,

MM

Lugerdoc · 01-22-2004, 10:07 AM

Judging from the dates (eg 953 = Sept. 1953) on rebarrelled DDR PO8s, many were put into storage that year. As far as I can tell, this corresponds with the introduction of the Makarov pistol and Warsaw Pact ammo standardization away from the 9mm Parabellum. TH

policeluger · 01-22-2004, 10:42 AM

I have been told that Norway sent a group too Germay after the war too act as police. I can tell you that I have a complete police rig that saw service in WW1, refitted in the Weimar period and saw use in WW2, after the war the holster was converted too the web belt hooks, and was used in police duties.The gun is total matching too include tool and holster numbered too the gun, I believe that sometime later an American MP brought it home with him...I have seen on the Discovery channel, pictures of post war Berlin, where an unidentified policeman directing traffic is wearing such a rig.

Doug G. · 01-22-2004, 12:59 PM

As far as I know the West German army was issued surplus US GI weapons after the war. A few years ago a bunch of German unit marked M-1 carbines were brought back into the states. Not sure exactly what all they used, but I know it was probably not the P.08.

Vlim · 01-22-2004, 02:31 PM

The Germans were quite sensible and continued on the route they already took during WW2. The P38 was cheaper to manufacture and was reintroduced as the P1. I believe in 1954 for the bundeswehr.

The Walther PP-series was also reintroduced, mainly for police use. Most European states received US and British military surplus material as part of the Marshall Aid plan. Since most German plants were either 'borrowed' by the Russians or bombed back to the stone age and US ammo supplies were plentiful, this was a sensible thing to do.

Most European countries introduced heavy penalties on civilian weapons possession after WWII in order to get them out of circulation as soon as possible. Most of it was recycled (i.e. melted down).

I know some material ended up in countries like Israel (who used ex-German K98 rifles and bayonets for some time). We have an Ex-wehrmacht, ex-Israeli army K98 at our shooting range and also a number of Surplus M1 carabines, that came from the Dutch army.

Edward Tinker · 01-22-2004, 04:08 PM

In addition there is a DDR book on Lugers, P38's etc., tells what each weapon was used after the war. Not a thick book, but nice.

Ed

mm · 01-23-2004, 03:04 AM

I appreciate almost all of the postings and as usual these comments were very insightful.

I know a few German nationals whose families had retained small arms after the war. The immediate post-war climate in Germany was very chaotic with widespread hunger and danger. Many Germans certainly weighed the risk/benefit of keeping these arms and decided that having one was worth the risk. Some years later, as West Germany became a stable democracy, firearm ownership restrictions lessened. Perhaps, there is no way of knowing how many Lugers ended up in the hands of private citizens in Germany unless there was an amnesty period that encouraged Germans to register these weapons. I personally know that in other parts of Western Europe, illegal small arms (WWI & WWII vintage) ownership is quite widespread especially in the countryside. One friend from Greece when he was a child found a Luger in excellent condition discarded by a soldier who had shed his uniform and weapons in attempt to blend in with refugees.

Cheers,

MM

Cheers,

mm

01-22-2004, 12:27 AM	#1
mm User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SFBAY Posts: 82 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Bundes Lugers? I know that after the war, the East German military and/or police had Lugers in their arsenal. But, can someone tell me if the West German military and/or police used them? And, if they did for how many years? Did they mark them in any way? What happened to all the West German Lugers? Did WWII soldiers and police keep them as personal property after the war? Also, when did the East Germans mothball their Lugers? Cheers, MM __________________ mjm

01-22-2004, 10:07 AM	#2
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Judging from the dates (eg 953 = Sept. 1953) on rebarrelled DDR PO8s, many were put into storage that year. As far as I can tell, this corresponds with the introduction of the Makarov pistol and Warsaw Pact ammo standardization away from the 9mm Parabellum. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

01-22-2004, 12:59 PM	#4
Doug G. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 713 Thanks: 1 Thanked 53 Times in 17 Posts	As far as I know the West German army was issued surplus US GI weapons after the war. A few years ago a bunch of German unit marked M-1 carbines were brought back into the states. Not sure exactly what all they used, but I know it was probably not the P.08. __________________ Suppose you were an idiot.....and suppose you were a member of Congress.....But I repeat myself" ~~ Mark Twain

01-22-2004, 04:08 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	In addition there is a DDR book on Lugers, P38's etc., tells what each weapon was used after the war. Not a thick book, but nice. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-23-2004, 03:04 AM	#7
mm User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SFBAY Posts: 82 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I appreciate almost all of the postings and as usual these comments were very insightful. I know a few German nationals whose families had retained small arms after the war. The immediate post-war climate in Germany was very chaotic with widespread hunger and danger. Many Germans certainly weighed the risk/benefit of keeping these arms and decided that having one was worth the risk. Some years later, as West Germany became a stable democracy, firearm ownership restrictions lessened. Perhaps, there is no way of knowing how many Lugers ended up in the hands of private citizens in Germany unless there was an amnesty period that encouraged Germans to register these weapons. I personally know that in other parts of Western Europe, illegal small arms (WWI & WWII vintage) ownership is quite widespread especially in the countryside. One friend from Greece when he was a child found a Luger in excellent condition discarded by a soldier who had shed his uniform and weapons in attempt to blend in with refugees. Cheers, MM Cheers, mm __________________ mjm

01-22-2004, 10:42 AM	#3
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	I have been told that Norway sent a group too Germay after the war too act as police. I can tell you that I have a complete police rig that saw service in WW1, refitted in the Weimar period and saw use in WW2, after the war the holster was converted too the web belt hooks, and was used in police duties.The gun is total matching too include tool and holster numbered too the gun, I believe that sometime later an American MP brought it home with him...I have seen on the Discovery channel, pictures of post war Berlin, where an unidentified policeman directing traffic is wearing such a rig.

01-22-2004, 02:31 PM	#5
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	The Germans were quite sensible and continued on the route they already took during WW2. The P38 was cheaper to manufacture and was reintroduced as the P1. I believe in 1954 for the bundeswehr. The Walther PP-series was also reintroduced, mainly for police use. Most European states received US and British military surplus material as part of the Marshall Aid plan. Since most German plants were either 'borrowed' by the Russians or bombed back to the stone age and US ammo supplies were plentiful, this was a sensible thing to do. Most European countries introduced heavy penalties on civilian weapons possession after WWII in order to get them out of circulation as soon as possible. Most of it was recycled (i.e. melted down). I know some material ended up in countries like Israel (who used ex-German K98 rifles and bayonets for some time). We have an Ex-wehrmacht, ex-Israeli army K98 at our shooting range and also a number of Surplus M1 carabines, that came from the Dutch army.