toggle lock?

Major Tom · 10-10-2017, 02:50 PM

What is a toggle lock? Just curious. Easy to repair if broken?
Thanks

mrerick · 10-10-2017, 04:01 PM

I believe it can refer to the part in the middle of the toggle on the right of a M1900 Luger that clips over an extension of the frame when the pistol is in battery. It prevents the toggle from rising without first moving the receiver back on the frame.

Alternately, it could refer to the small pin that holds the toggle's axle in place on the M1906 and later Lugers.

P51 of the Lugerforum FAQ document discusses this.

Major Tom · 10-11-2017, 08:28 AM

The luger in question is a DWM 1900 American Eagle in decent condition. Ad says it is fine mechanically. So, safe to shoot with broken toggle lock? Can it be repaired?

m1903a3 · 10-11-2017, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major Tom

The luger in question is a DWM 1900 American Eagle in decent condition. Ad says it is fine mechanically. So, safe to shoot with broken toggle lock? Can it be repaired?

Anything can be repaired, it's just a question of cost.
In this case, it's also a question of what part of the toggle lock is broken. If the small projection on the top of the frame rail is damaged that would be worst case. It can be removed, but it's silver soldered in and the heating to get it out would damage the finish. If its simply a case of the latch in the toggle being broken or missing it become a quest to find a replacement part. But actually replacing it is quick and easy - no tools required.

Ron Wood · 10-11-2017, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m1903a3

...But actually replacing it is quick and easy - no tools required.

You need a pin punch (or a paper clip)

DonVoigt · 10-11-2017, 08:44 AM

Safe to shoot, yes; if all else is ok.
Repair- possible; expensive and would require re-finish of at least part or all of the receiver.

Would help to know the price, if low enough - fine; ignore the broken latch.
If you want a perfect specimen for collecting- move on. JMHO.

Major Tom · 10-12-2017, 09:44 AM

The price is $1995. I think that is a little high?

DonVoigt · 10-12-2017, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major Tom

The price is $1995. I think that is a little high?

Tough call without pictures and without "knowing" which part of the toggle lock is broken.

I "ass-umed" it was the piece on the frame, maybe not.
Still expensive either way.

sheepherder · 10-12-2017, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major Tom

The price is $1995. I think that is a little high?

It's about par for the course at Simpson's Ltd in Galesville IL.

(That's what I paid total for my M1900AE from Simpson's).

Lugerdoc · 10-12-2017, 10:30 AM

The most common damage to the orig M1900 toggle lock is the worn or broken off internal arm at the top that retains the center toggle axel. So without it, the axel can drift out to the right and jam the action. Short of a correct replacement, one can install a postwar axel (available @$5) which can be pressed into place. TH

Puretexan · 10-12-2017, 12:25 PM

Ok all these posts...read them all and still don't know what a toggle lock is. Did
everybody have a massive camera fail at the same time?

sheepherder · 10-12-2017, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puretexan

Did everybody have a massive camera fail at the same time?

If my TV remote doesn't have a button for it, then it probably won't get done...

Here's how it works...That paddle-shaped piece in the middle of the toggle knob has a hook at the bottom. That square-looking part on the frame rail also has a hook. They engage each other, preventing the toggle from being lifted UNLESS you pull the toggle train straight back about 3/16" BEFORE lifting. If you try to yank it up like on a P08, it will break one or the other hooks.

ithacaartist · 10-12-2017, 01:33 PM

Rich (or Ron!), what's up with the pic of a toggle lock on the New Model toggles that are checkered, not dished? If the flat mainspring's common failure to keep the toggle down is the reason for having a toggle lock, wouldn't the pistol in the pic have a coil spring, and consequently not need one?

sheepherder · 10-12-2017, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Rich (or Ron!), what's up with the pic of a toggle lock on the New Model toggles that are checkered, not dished?

I screen-grabbed the first pic I came to; it was labeled as a 'transition model'. I was just too lazy to get up off the couch and open the safe, put a battery in my camera, find a backdrop, take a pic, transfer it to my PC, crop the pic, resize it, upload it, and then add my comment...

In the time it took me to write that last paragraph, I had already posted it.

m1903a3 · 10-12-2017, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Rich (or Ron!), what's up with the pic of a toggle lock on the New Model toggles that are checkered, not dished? If the flat mainspring's common failure to keep the toggle down is the reason for having a toggle lock, wouldn't the pistol in the pic have a coil spring, and consequently not need one?

Just because it has checkered toggles doesn't necessarily mean it also has a coil spring. My 1904 Navy has a long frame, flat spring, toggle lock (see my avatar) as well as checkered toggles.

ithacaartist · 10-12-2017, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m1903a3

Just because it has checkered toggles doesn't necessarily mean it also has a coil spring. My 1904 Navy has a long frame, flat spring, toggle lock (see my avatar) as well as checkered toggles.

Thanks Mike. I figured Navies (~1904) were probably an exception, 'cause they have checkered toggle lugs. Yours is a first issue, right? Altered or not? Rich's first pic isn't a Navy though. His later description of how it's called "transition" sort of clears it up. A good reminder that design changes didn't necessarily occur simultaneously, or even consistently...

Nice set of photos, Rich!

Puretexan · 10-12-2017, 01:35 PM

I appreciate it. I guess the really old ones are the only ones that have it.
Glad my three don't because I would have broken them already.

kurusu · 10-12-2017, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puretexan

I appreciate it. I guess the really old ones are the only ones that have it.
Glad my three don't because I would have broken them already.

Yep. Only the early models with the flat mainspring have them. After the chage to the coil mainspring it was found to be unnecessary.

Puretexan · 10-12-2017, 04:01 PM

Wow Sheepherder, that made me tired reading about it. Heck I had to take a nap!

sheepherder · 10-12-2017, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puretexan

Wow Sheepherder, that made me tired reading about it. Heck I had to take a nap!

Ya snooze, ya lose...

Here's my 1900AE toggle lock...

10-10-2017, 02:50 PM	#1
Major Tom User Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: S.E. Iowa Posts: 483 Thanks: 533 Thanked 227 Times in 124 Posts	toggle lock? What is a toggle lock? Just curious. Easy to repair if broken? Thanks __________________ I Build Custom Pistol Boxes

10-10-2017, 04:01 PM	#2
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,907 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,509 Posts	I believe it can refer to the part in the middle of the toggle on the right of a M1900 Luger that clips over an extension of the frame when the pistol is in battery. It prevents the toggle from rising without first moving the receiver back on the frame. Alternately, it could refer to the small pin that holds the toggle's axle in place on the M1906 and later Lugers. P51 of the Lugerforum FAQ document discusses this. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

10-11-2017, 08:28 AM	#3
Major Tom User Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: S.E. Iowa Posts: 483 Thanks: 533 Thanked 227 Times in 124 Posts	The luger in question is a DWM 1900 American Eagle in decent condition. Ad says it is fine mechanically. So, safe to shoot with broken toggle lock? Can it be repaired? __________________ I Build Custom Pistol Boxes

10-11-2017, 08:44 AM	#6
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Safe to shoot, yes; if all else is ok. Repair- possible; expensive and would require re-finish of at least part or all of the receiver. Would help to know the price, if low enough - fine; ignore the broken latch. If you want a perfect specimen for collecting- move on. JMHO. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

10-12-2017, 09:44 AM	#7
Major Tom User Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: S.E. Iowa Posts: 483 Thanks: 533 Thanked 227 Times in 124 Posts	The price is $1995. I think that is a little high? __________________ I Build Custom Pistol Boxes

10-12-2017, 10:30 AM	#10
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	The most common damage to the orig M1900 toggle lock is the worn or broken off internal arm at the top that retains the center toggle axel. So without it, the axel can drift out to the right and jam the action. Short of a correct replacement, one can install a postwar axel (available @$5) which can be pressed into place. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-12-2017, 12:25 PM	#11
Puretexan User Join Date: May 2017 Location: Pearland Texas Posts: 176 Thanks: 11 Thanked 70 Times in 36 Posts	Ok all these posts...read them all and still don't know what a toggle lock is. Did everybody have a massive camera fail at the same time?

10-12-2017, 01:33 PM	#13
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,323 Thanks: 7,193 Thanked 2,537 Times in 1,350 Posts	Rich (or Ron!), what's up with the pic of a toggle lock on the New Model toggles that are checkered, not dished? If the flat mainspring's common failure to keep the toggle down is the reason for having a toggle lock, wouldn't the pistol in the pic have a coil spring, and consequently not need one? __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

10-12-2017, 01:35 PM	#17
Puretexan User Join Date: May 2017 Location: Pearland Texas Posts: 176 Thanks: 11 Thanked 70 Times in 36 Posts	I appreciate it. I guess the really old ones are the only ones that have it. Glad my three don't because I would have broken them already.

10-12-2017, 04:01 PM	#19
Puretexan User Join Date: May 2017 Location: Pearland Texas Posts: 176 Thanks: 11 Thanked 70 Times in 36 Posts	Wow Sheepherder, that made me tired reading about it. Heck I had to take a nap!