Eugen buys a police rework

[Eugen]

So I am up to four Lugers now. Recently, I went to a regional gun show and bought a Luger on impulse. Yep, pretty much impulse. I am sure nobody has done that before.: rolleyes:

I brought it home and field stripped and pulled out my limited book library it try to determine just what I bought. I didn’t know it at the time, but it appears to be a police rework pistol. After a little research I thought I’d turn to my buds on the forum for advice. I’d appreciate your comments and the correction of any of my incorrect assumptions.

All the numbered parts match (#35) except the firing pin which is fluted, the mag and the grips, and perhaps the breech block. The grips don’t match each other: the left has a “S/42” or “S/421” over a drooping eagle above “164”. The right grip has a Fraktur font “5”. Is the right grip original?

I haven’t researched the mag yet. The are no side markings. The 3066 “O” with drooping eagle “63” are original to the 1918, but Weimar or Nazi era? Note the honest looking, strong right side alum wear. Was this from serious holster wear?

The frame and receiver is either a DWM or Erfurt. I am guessing Erfurt since it has several RC crown stamps. Goetz & Sturgess (G&S) write that mostly these are found on Erfurts and rarely on DWMs. Is this an Erfurt frame and receiver? Inspector “X” stamped his fraktur font mark on the front of the trigger guard. I could not find any sign of a mag safety ever being installed, just the sear safety.

The toggle has been polished and reblued (the frame and receiver appear to have original bluing) there is a faint portion of a “D” as in DWM still remaining. The front toggle has some pitting and I don’t understand any other reason for just that part being polished and reblued. The breech block has been restamped oddly. Is the toggle assembly a replacement or original to the pistol?

The barrel is clearly a replacement and a clear clue as to the police refurbishment with “PT” stamp on the barrel (a post 1934 Technical Police Academy symbol according to G&S) and a Weimar police eagle below it. There is also a “1” stamped on the barrel and non-imperial eagles with “33” below them. The barrel grooving was exceptionally bright, shiny and sharp and one of the reasons why I wanted to jump on it. I figured it would be a good shooter. After I cleaned and lubed it carefully, I went to the range and shot 28 rounds of WWB and she performed flawlessly and very accurately. Alright! Eugen is a happy boy.

Now for more questions. Did this pistol begin life in 1918 as an LP.08? Was it then acquired by the Weimar Police (PT) and the barrel and toggle replaced with standard P.08 9mm hardware since the Allies did not allow the German military or police to have LP.08s? Perhaps it always was a P.08 and the PT simply refurbished the pistol by replacing the barrel and cleaning up the toggle assembly and popping in a new firing pin and grips for police service? What do you think?

I would appreciate your opinion of this Luger’s worth. I am still in my rookie year of Luger mania and have no clue as to police rework Lugers’ value. I bought it for a shooter due to the replacement barrel, the reblued toggle and replacement striker. But, do the police reworks have special value as it is, mixed parts and all? Is this refurbished Luger collectible?

I paid $800. Did my impulsive behavior cost this rookie or do me a favor? Thank you for your helpful comments.

[Eugen]

more photos

[mrerick]

$800 is a good price for a properly functioning shooter. It is a parts gun made up from alot of different and somewhat interesting stuff.

Random observations:

Your S/42 grip would have been an armorer's replacement made for Mauser.

The firing pin is fluted, and probably a Mauser pin.

Were the forward two firing proofs removed from the receiver right side? They look like they were originally Erfurt. It could well be a leftover Erfurt receiver that was never assembled into a complete gun during WW-I... The Germans never wasted anything, and that would include gun parts.

Looks like someone overstamped the magazine acceptance stamp inspector numbe,r which was probably originally "63". A pre- WW-II war Mauser magazine.

Side plate was likely from a commercial Luger.

Probably originally an Erfurt toggle train, with the center toggle ground down.

i'm not familiar with the E/33 inspector who's mark is on the barrel.

Is it a Navy acceptance / proof mark on the Breech Block?

The receiver and side plate were renumbered at some point.

[Eugen]

Originally Posted by mrerick

$800 is a good price for a properly functioning shooter. It is a parts gun made up from alot of different and somewhat interesting stuff.

Random observations:

Your S/42 grip would have been an armorer's replacement made for Mauser.

The firing pin is fluted, and probably a Mauser pin.

Were the forward two firing proofs removed from the receiver right side? They look like they were originally Erfurt. It could well be a leftover Erfurt receiver that was never assembled into a complete gun during WW-I... The Germans never wasted anything, and that would include gun parts.

Looks like someone overstamped the magazine acceptance stamp inspector numbe,r which was probably originally "63". A pre- WW-II war Mauser magazine.

Side plate was likely from a commercial Luger.

Probably originally an Erfurt toggle train, with the center toggle ground down.

i'm not familiar with the E/33 inspector who's mark is on the barrel.

Is it a Navy acceptance / proof mark on the Breech Block?

The receiver and side plate were renumbered at some point.

Re: firing proofs. I am not knowledgeable regarding those, but it does not appear to have any proofs removed on the front right side of the receiver.

Re: breech block markings. There is a crown stamp and some restampings going on. I don't know what they are about or when they occurred.

Re: side plate. I've attached another photo of the plate. There is a 66 stamp on the bottom outside and Fraktur V ? on the inside. Note the "2" also. I don't know what those mean. Not pictured is the slot for the safety sear.

[kurusu]

That number in the bottom of the side plate 66? Was it's original serial number made in the commercial fashion it was renumbered in the military fashion to match the rest.

[cirelaw]

PERFECT AND BEAUTIFUL!! MUST COMMEND YOUR LUGER AUTOPSY! Honestly A Very Nice Looking Luger with your awesome narrative!! Eric PS I'm researching favorite luger taking cameras and your photo fits my profile~Eric

[Edward Tinker]

It started life as an Erfurt and after the war it was either refurbished by DWM receiving a new toggle - nto uncommon. It then went into police service. When it received a new barrel - it was put on by the police as they ordered a ton of barrels from Simson (eagle 33) - this is a common marking and is frequently seen on police 'reworks'.

About 1934 or so, it received a sear safety - it could have been in police service for many years or right before that time, but likely for many years.

Ed

[DonVoigt]

Eugen,
I can see you have the "sickness", congrats.

The pistol is worth exactly what you paid for it! You proved that already.

Yes it is a Navy proof crown on the breech block - so it is not an Erfurt toggle train- or at least the breech block is not, the rear toggle may be Erfurt as it seems to have an Erfurt proof on it.

The receiver was not a L P08, Erfurt did not make long pistols except in 1914; but they did cut the receivers in 1917-18 with the sight relief. The frame likely was a left over, since it does not have the final firing proof(unless it was removed at re-work).

The front picture of the frame shows the the mark on the trigger guard, it is an Erfurt frame.

That is not a "5(five)" on the right grip, but a Fractur/gothic "S", from a K date Mauser; so it is not original.

There is no reason to assume the striker is Mauser made, it has two sets of numbers and was likely grooved at re-work.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

The frame likely was a left over, since it does not have the final firing proof(unless it was removed at re-work).

But it does have the Revisions Commission stamp. What does that tell us???

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

But it does have the Revisions Commission stamp. What does that tell us???

That some minor "something" was wrong with the part and it was later inspected and passed by the "RC".

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

That some minor "something" was wrong with the part and it was later inspected and passed by the "RC".

"Inspected and passed" or possibly reworked, re-inspected, and passed??? Being held up could be why some proofs are missing??? Eugen states the RC/C is on the frame, could being held up be why it is mismatched? It's parts went on to another frame???

Just curious. 1970's Honda motorcycles and their engines were often mismatched from the factory, same reasons.

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

"Inspected and passed" or possibly reworked, re-inspected, and passed??? Being held up could be why some proofs are missing??? Eugen states the RC/C is on the frame, could being held up be why it is mismatched? It's parts went on to another frame???

Just curious. 1970's Honda motorcycles and their engines were often mismatched from the factory, same reasons.

I can clearly see the RC on the receiver, maybe one on the rear toggle also, I didn't catch the one on the frame. It is not surprising that many Erfurt parts have the RC, they were "religious" in its use!

Anything could be, but RC usually means a cosmetic or non-critical defect that the RC signed off on.

The luger is mismatched because it was reworked by the police and maybe parts changed later also.

The receiver has the appearance of a replacement/unfinished receiver with the RC and followed by the two empty crowns and no final firing proof. IMO, it was not used until the police(PT marking) assembled it to a frame and installed a barrel.

But we will never know for sure.

[cirelaw]

Tough times during the Weimar Republic!

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by cirelaw

Tough times during the Weimar Republic!

You got that one right Eric. From the end of the war until the rise of Adolf it was sort of anything goes in the pistol manufacturing department. There were many parts floating around, and there were lots of people in dire need of a quick buck.

It turned out that Adolf wasn't the answer for their problems.

[cirelaw]

TKS He also caused much worse, a divided Europe and 2 Germanys!! Our world for other reasons is a real mess!!! Being half German, I'm still very proud! I find Weimer lugers facinating including Weimar police~Lugers are really German history books~Eric

[Eugen]

Wow, what a great response to my quest for information on this new to me Luger. I have learned much (as always) from all of you.

Thank you.