1938 S/42 "A" stamp?

waltherguy · 12-06-2016, 09:24 PM

First and foremost... Hello all! Sad to say, I have not logged onto the forum since 2009

Life, Career changes, selling off the collection, etc... Glad to be back! SO all that said, Starting to slowly rebuild the collection and ran across a 1938 Mauser that really has me scratching my head.. First glance I noticed a un numbered side plate and takedown pin and thought.. meh, it's a shooter... But then I noticed a very odd large letter "A" stamped next to the serial number on the left side, and also on the lower part of the gun???? I'm really baffled... Any ideas?

Thanks much!

Lugerdoc · 12-06-2016, 09:42 PM

WG, Is there any suffix number on the front of the frame? If not an A suffix, the A on the receiver was probably added to a second PO8 stamped in error with the same serial as the one made before it. TH PS: I've also seen this on M1914 Mauser pistols.

waltherguy · 12-06-2016, 09:56 PM

Hi! and Thank you for the quick response!! Indeed it does, see pic below. It wouldn't have any connection to the non-numbered sideplate and takedown pin would it? Very interesting stuff..

John Sabato · 12-07-2016, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lugerdoc

WG, Is there any suffix number on the front of the frame? If not an A suffix, the A on the receiver was probably added to a second PO8 stamped in error with the same serial as the one made before it. TH PS: I've also seen this on M1914 Mauser pistols.

A great explanation Tom. I have never personally seen this type of serial number modification before... Your theory is certainly very plausible. It would prevent a finished gun from being destroyed as a result of the mistake... and would allow for accountability using the modified serial number.

Has anyone else seen examples of this type of stamping?

waltherguy · 12-07-2016, 02:07 PM

Again, Thanks for the feedback gentleman! Any more input would be appreciated. Side note, gun is pretty clean.. all matched (minus the unmarked side plate and take down) mismatch mag...

DonVoigt · 12-07-2016, 02:31 PM

If so, why is the "A" not also on the frame?

waltherguy · 12-07-2016, 02:54 PM

It's there.. sorry a little tough to spot in the pic I took

Dwight Gruber · 12-07-2016, 03:31 PM

The capital letter A was used to denote rejected parts.

-Dwight

Eugen · 12-07-2016, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber

The capital letter A was used to denote rejected parts.

-Dwight

Hmm...school me on what normally happened to rejected parts. (Recyled/reworked, tossed, given away, etc? from the guy who's last name begins with a capital A

)

Dwight Gruber · 12-07-2016, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugen

Hmm...school me on what normally happened to rejected parts. (Recyled/reworked, tossed, given away, etc? from the guy who's last name begins with a capital A

)

Hard to say, in general. There are examples of Lugers made up entirely of reject parts, presumably for demonstration or instruction purposes.

--Dwight

waltherguy · 12-07-2016, 03:36 PM

Hi Dwight! Very long time no speak... Well that throws another interesting twist in the mix. Hmmm.

waltherguy · 12-07-2016, 06:09 PM

I'll also add.. the matched stamps on the grips seemed a little funky to me as well.. but I've been out of the game for a while now.. I'm still rusty

I'll try and snap some pics later this evening.

DonVoigt · 12-07-2016, 07:26 PM

Eugen,
perhaps easier to say what they were Not used for - military production.
Many parts rejected for the military were used by Mauser for commercial production.

I rather doubt this "A" is for reject; but for the odd occurance of the same serial digits occuring in a unit- so one of them was stamped with "A" for quick differentiation.

This practice is noted in one of the books, one of the Police books maybe, but I can't recall exactly where at the moment! CRS strikes again.

This one is a puzzle with the un-numbered parts: another possibility is a post WWII rebuild by one of the Suhl gun makers, with the A added to identify their work; kind of like a trademark seen applied by others- for example Luneschloss.

Dwight Gruber · 12-07-2016, 07:40 PM

Don,

See "German Small Arms Markings" p.118, also p.114. The Germans were very clear about the use of the capital-A.

--Dwight

DonVoigt · 12-07-2016, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber

Don,

See "German Small Arms Markings" p.118, also p.114. The Germans were very clear about the use of the capital-A.

--Dwight

Thanks Dwight,
I would if I had it.
How about a little longer quote?

I could see one "A" for reject, but why reject an entire pistol? Each part would have past inspection before assembly- I would understand a piece assembled from a reject receiver and reject frame- but not with the same number??

Don

Dwight Gruber · 12-07-2016, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

I could see one "A" for reject, but why reject an entire pistol? Each part would have past inspection before assembly- I would understand a piece assembled from a reject receiver and reject frame- but not with the same number??

Don

Perhaps it was the entire pistol as assembled which was ultimately rejected?

--Dwight

DonVoigt · 12-08-2016, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber

Perhaps it was the entire pistol as assembled which was ultimately rejected?

--Dwight

Of course it is possible; but I would think Highly unlikely-
What "defect" would cause an entire pistol to be condemed?

Just defies logic to me.

Assembly of first class, inspected parts could fail only a targeting test, maybe? If so the barrel would be changed and re-numbered/re-tested-
or what am I missing?

waltherguy · 12-07-2016, 08:03 PM

Hehe.. so Let me ask all of your expert opinion... This gun belongs to a good friend, I am interested in buying it.. the price is fair-ish... The mystery alone makes me want this pistol... Worth grabbing this for the collection?

DonVoigt · 12-07-2016, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waltherguy

Hehe.. so Let me ask all of your expert opinion... This gun belongs to a good friend, I am interested in buying it.. the price is fair-ish... The mystery alone makes me want this pistol... Worth grabbing this for the collection?

It would have to be "cheap-ish" to tempt me.

Dwight Gruber · 12-07-2016, 11:29 PM

From "German Small Arms Markings" p. 118: "Any parts considered to be rejects are to be marked with the capital letter 'A'..."; "Editorial Note: 'A' was an abbreviation for 'Ausschuss', meaning 'rejected part' or 'scrap'"

Ibid., from p. 114: "Notes: 1.) It is left to the rifle factories to apply 'worker stamps'...[which must] utilize Latin letters from 'B' to 'Z'...The letter 'A', as well as numerals, are to be excluded."

--Dwight

12-06-2016, 09:24 PM	#1
waltherguy User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: FL Posts: 201 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1938 S/42 "A" stamp? First and foremost... Hello all! Sad to say, I have not logged onto the forum since 2009 Life, Career changes, selling off the collection, etc... Glad to be back! SO all that said, Starting to slowly rebuild the collection and ran across a 1938 Mauser that really has me scratching my head.. First glance I noticed a un numbered side plate and takedown pin and thought.. meh, it's a shooter... But then I noticed a very odd large letter "A" stamped next to the serial number on the left side, and also on the lower part of the gun???? I'm really baffled... Any ideas? Thanks much! Attached Thumbnails __________________ "In a man to man fight the winner is the one who puts an extra round in his magazine" -Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

12-06-2016, 09:42 PM	#2
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	WG, Is there any suffix number on the front of the frame? If not an A suffix, the A on the receiver was probably added to a second PO8 stamped in error with the same serial as the one made before it. TH PS: I've also seen this on M1914 Mauser pistols. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net Last edited by Lugerdoc; 12-06-2016 at 09:43 PM. Reason: typing error

12-06-2016, 09:56 PM	#3
waltherguy User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: FL Posts: 201 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi! and Thank you for the quick response!! Indeed it does, see pic below. It wouldn't have any connection to the non-numbered sideplate and takedown pin would it? Very interesting stuff.. Attached Thumbnails __________________ "In a man to man fight the winner is the one who puts an extra round in his magazine" -Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

12-07-2016, 02:07 PM	#5
waltherguy User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: FL Posts: 201 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Again, Thanks for the feedback gentleman! Any more input would be appreciated. Side note, gun is pretty clean.. all matched (minus the unmarked side plate and take down) mismatch mag... __________________ "In a man to man fight the winner is the one who puts an extra round in his magazine" -Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

12-07-2016, 02:31 PM	#6
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,443 Thanked 4,355 Times in 2,041 Posts	If so, why is the "A" not also on the frame? __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

12-07-2016, 02:54 PM	#7
waltherguy User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: FL Posts: 201 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It's there.. sorry a little tough to spot in the pic I took Attached Thumbnails __________________ "In a man to man fight the winner is the one who puts an extra round in his magazine" -Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

12-07-2016, 03:31 PM	#8
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	The capital letter A was used to denote rejected parts. -Dwight

12-07-2016, 03:36 PM	#11
waltherguy User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: FL Posts: 201 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Dwight! Very long time no speak... Well that throws another interesting twist in the mix. Hmmm. __________________ "In a man to man fight the winner is the one who puts an extra round in his magazine" -Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

12-07-2016, 06:09 PM	#12
waltherguy User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: FL Posts: 201 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'll also add.. the matched stamps on the grips seemed a little funky to me as well.. but I've been out of the game for a while now.. I'm still rusty I'll try and snap some pics later this evening. __________________ "In a man to man fight the winner is the one who puts an extra round in his magazine" -Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

12-07-2016, 07:26 PM	#13
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,443 Thanked 4,355 Times in 2,041 Posts	Eugen, perhaps easier to say what they were Not used for - military production. Many parts rejected for the military were used by Mauser for commercial production. I rather doubt this "A" is for reject; but for the odd occurance of the same serial digits occuring in a unit- so one of them was stamped with "A" for quick differentiation. This practice is noted in one of the books, one of the Police books maybe, but I can't recall exactly where at the moment! CRS strikes again. This one is a puzzle with the un-numbered parts: another possibility is a post WWII rebuild by one of the Suhl gun makers, with the A added to identify their work; kind of like a trademark seen applied by others- for example Luneschloss. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

12-07-2016, 07:40 PM	#14
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Don, See "German Small Arms Markings" p.118, also p.114. The Germans were very clear about the use of the capital-A. --Dwight

12-07-2016, 08:03 PM	#18
waltherguy User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: FL Posts: 201 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hehe.. so Let me ask all of your expert opinion... This gun belongs to a good friend, I am interested in buying it.. the price is fair-ish... The mystery alone makes me want this pistol... Worth grabbing this for the collection? __________________ "In a man to man fight the winner is the one who puts an extra round in his magazine" -Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

12-07-2016, 11:29 PM	#20
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	From "German Small Arms Markings" p. 118: "Any parts considered to be rejects are to be marked with the capital letter 'A'..."; "Editorial Note: 'A' was an abbreviation for 'Ausschuss', meaning 'rejected part' or 'scrap'" Ibid., from p. 114: "Notes: 1.) It is left to the rifle factories to apply 'worker stamps'...[which must] utilize Latin letters from 'B' to 'Z'...The letter 'A', as well as numerals, are to be excluded." --Dwight