1938 S/42 Pics need info

deansova · 08-05-2015, 09:48 PM

This p08 is all matching not sure what all the marks mean like the S and M in these pics feel free to give a call if it is easier Dean 313-299-9533

DonVoigt · 08-05-2015, 10:34 PM

Could you post more pictures of the entire pistol and other markings?

Also a little lighter would help.

DavidJayUden · 08-05-2015, 10:39 PM

I've got some ideas but will await better photos before I go out on that limb...
dju

deansova · 08-05-2015, 10:52 PM

here is another pic and there is no letter suffix on the frame

Edward Tinker · 08-05-2015, 11:16 PM

the M is not for navy IMO...

although I know that is the first thing you think of when you see it...

mrerick · 08-05-2015, 11:31 PM

The magazine looks scrubbed and remarked to me...

John Sabato · 08-06-2015, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

The magazine looks scrubbed and remarked to me...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

the M is not for navy IMO...

although I know that is the first thing you think of when you see it...

I concur with Ed, this is not a Navy pistol

, but I don't ever recall seeing a mark such as the "M" on this pistol and magazine.

I would need to see several more photographs from different angles and in better lighting conditions to comment on whether or not the magazine has been renumbered. I can not tell from the existing photo.

deansova · 08-06-2015, 08:05 AM

This Luger came from the Family of the VET that brought it back and is papered to him back to 1973 in Michigan when they started registration. I also found an M on the back strap. Just would like to know the ins and outs of the letters.

DonVoigt · 08-06-2015, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deansova

This Luger came from the Family of the VET that brought it back and is papered to him back to 1973 in Michigan when they started registration. I also found an M on the back strap. Just would like to know the ins and outs of the letters.

One can't comment much on the letters without seeing the entire
pistol.

Individually they make no sense, perhaps with the entire pistol they will make more sense in a total context.

deansova · 08-06-2015, 08:44 AM

Here is another pic

alanint · 08-06-2015, 09:16 AM

Please show the backstrap as well. Any other markings besides the "M" on the backstrap?

deansova · 08-06-2015, 09:29 AM

Just an M on the backstrap same as the other M here is another pic

deansova · 08-06-2015, 09:30 AM

Has eagle 63 or eagle G3 on other side.

mrerick · 08-06-2015, 10:01 AM

From your closeup picture several problems are evident.

First, the frame is proud of the receiver a few millimeters. This would never leave the factory that way.

Second, the barrel to receiver witness mark doesn't line up.

Third, it's evident that the frame and barrel have been renumbered. The vertical grind marks on the frame and the difference in depth of the barrel serial number and gauge mark show this.

The "S" (probably intended to imply a Simson rework) and "M" (probably intended to imply a Marine pistol) die fonts on your gun were not used by Mauser in Germany. They had to be applied later.

All of this is unfortunate if you were told you were getting an original factory gun.

Lugerdoc · 08-06-2015, 10:18 AM

Dean, I agree with the above. A franken luger, renumbered to match. Tom

Sergio Natali · 08-06-2015, 11:18 AM

Probably a bit of a mixmaster, but I can't really tell from those pictures that perhaps leave something to be desired.

Sergio

deansova · 08-06-2015, 04:32 PM

Well like I said it came from a vets family and I have the registration paperwork going back to 1973 before renumbering Lugers and marking them became popular. The paperwork includes all the serial numbers and such as well. I got it at a more than fair price as it came into my place of business because I have signs up buying German stuff. So no reason to think it more than something that came back this way. Simson rework I could buy but not a modern boondoggle.

DonVoigt · 08-06-2015, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deansova

Well like I said it came from a vets family and I have the registration paperwork going back to 1973 before renumbering Lugers and marking them became popular. The paperwork includes all the serial numbers and such as well. I got it at a more than fair price as it came into my place of business because I have signs up buying German stuff. So no reason to think it more than something that came back this way. Simson rework I could buy but not a modern boondoggle.

Why won't you put up a full set of pictures?
Saying the "M" is the same is not the same as seeing it, and its location and appearance.

Pictures of the paper work would also help elucidate what you have.

Lugers have been being "messed with" since 1946, maybe before.
Could have been done in Germany before the GI ever came home.

In your paper work do you have bring back authorization papers?
When or where the luger was picked up?

DavidJayUden · 08-06-2015, 05:32 PM

Dean:
I agree with most of these guys. We really need to see good photos to go anywhere on this one. Look at your photos and put yourself in our place; Could you make an informed assessment based on them?
And boosting Lugers is not a new criminal endeavor...
Bear with us here.
dju

deansova · 08-06-2015, 06:27 PM

If I was good at taking pictures I would post other pics. I don't even own a cell phone because I hate this type of communication. Just call me old fashioned. No capture papers just state of Michigan Registration that started after the riots. Lugers were cheap then and not worth trying to mess with an M1 carbine was $58 that's when my Dad bought his because of the riots. Not worth it to grind, stamp, finish and reblue something you brought back from the war to not be something recognizable. Hence I wanted to know what the letter codes were. I will try to take more pics. Every part is numbered to the gun Trigger, The toggle pin every thing I have checked but the grips are unnumbered.

08-05-2015, 09:48 PM	#1
deansova User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	1938 S/42 Pics need info This p08 is all matching not sure what all the marks mean like the S and M in these pics feel free to give a call if it is easier Dean 313-299-9533

08-05-2015, 11:31 PM	#6
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	The magazine looks scrubbed and remarked to me... __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

08-06-2015, 10:01 AM	#14
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	From your closeup picture several problems are evident. First, the frame is proud of the receiver a few millimeters. This would never leave the factory that way. Second, the barrel to receiver witness mark doesn't line up. Third, it's evident that the frame and barrel have been renumbered. The vertical grind marks on the frame and the difference in depth of the barrel serial number and gauge mark show this. The "S" (probably intended to imply a Simson rework) and "M" (probably intended to imply a Marine pistol) die fonts on your gun were not used by Mauser in Germany. They had to be applied later. All of this is unfortunate if you were told you were getting an original factory gun. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

08-06-2015, 10:18 AM	#15
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Dean, I agree with the above. A franken luger, renumbered to match. Tom __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

08-06-2015, 11:18 AM	#16
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Probably a bit of a mixmaster, but I can't really tell from those pictures that perhaps leave something to be desired. Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

08-05-2015, 10:34 PM	#2
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,443 Thanked 4,355 Times in 2,041 Posts	Could you post more pictures of the entire pistol and other markings? Also a little lighter would help.

08-05-2015, 10:39 PM	#3
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I've got some ideas but will await better photos before I go out on that limb... dju

08-05-2015, 10:52 PM	#4
deansova User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	here is another pic and there is no letter suffix on the frame

08-05-2015, 11:16 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,963 Thanks: 2,064 Thanked 4,593 Times in 2,115 Posts	the M is not for navy IMO... although I know that is the first thing you think of when you see it...

08-06-2015, 08:05 AM	#8
deansova User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	This Luger came from the Family of the VET that brought it back and is papered to him back to 1973 in Michigan when they started registration. I also found an M on the back strap. Just would like to know the ins and outs of the letters.

08-06-2015, 08:44 AM	#10
deansova User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Here is another pic

08-06-2015, 09:16 AM	#11
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Please show the backstrap as well. Any other markings besides the "M" on the backstrap?

08-06-2015, 09:29 AM	#12
deansova User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Just an M on the backstrap same as the other M here is another pic

08-06-2015, 09:30 AM	#13
deansova User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Has eagle 63 or eagle G3 on other side.

08-06-2015, 04:32 PM	#17
deansova User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Well like I said it came from a vets family and I have the registration paperwork going back to 1973 before renumbering Lugers and marking them became popular. The paperwork includes all the serial numbers and such as well. I got it at a more than fair price as it came into my place of business because I have signs up buying German stuff. So no reason to think it more than something that came back this way. Simson rework I could buy but not a modern boondoggle.

08-06-2015, 05:32 PM	#19
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Dean: I agree with most of these guys. We really need to see good photos to go anywhere on this one. Look at your photos and put yourself in our place; Could you make an informed assessment based on them? And boosting Lugers is not a new criminal endeavor... Bear with us here. dju

08-06-2015, 06:27 PM	#20
deansova User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	If I was good at taking pictures I would post other pics. I don't even own a cell phone because I hate this type of communication. Just call me old fashioned. No capture papers just state of Michigan Registration that started after the riots. Lugers were cheap then and not worth trying to mess with an M1 carbine was $58 that's when my Dad bought his because of the riots. Not worth it to grind, stamp, finish and reblue something you brought back from the war to not be something recognizable. Hence I wanted to know what the letter codes were. I will try to take more pics. Every part is numbered to the gun Trigger, The toggle pin every thing I have checked but the grips are unnumbered.