"Imperial german uboat navy luger box WW1"

laoshi75 · 09-25-2014, 12:45 PM

First time I see this accessory...but I know nothing about Navy stuff. What do you think Gentlemen please ? I am just curious...

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Boite-etanche...item4d24bb8183

John Sabato · 09-25-2014, 01:56 PM

It is my opinion, that while this box LOOKS interesting and MAY be genuine... unless you can find an illustration of this box in some kind of German Kriegsmarine manual, that you will never know what the origin is... it will all be speculation. It could have been made last week, or 100 years ago.

It is a GREAT DEAL of money for a "maybe. " Without published provenance, I would have to pass.

Just my $0.02 Christian...

Norme · 09-25-2014, 02:23 PM

Hi Christian, That watertight bronze storage box is genuine Imperial Navy, and was intended to keep P08 ammo dry on Uboats. They are very rare and very expensive, and I believe there are only one or two here in the US. Unfortunately the one in the auction looks like it's been buffed (polished) which will have a devastating effect on it's value. An unpolished one would sell for $5,000.00 or more.
Regards, Norm

John Sabato · 09-25-2014, 03:48 PM

Wow Norm... you can learn something new here every day! Do you have a published reference that shows a device like this box? It would be neat to see photos of others that are similar...

Ron Wood · 09-25-2014, 04:06 PM

Simpson's Ltd has one for sale (has been listed for quite some time) for only $7295! It is listed as "German U Boat Ammo Storage Box".

John Sabato · 09-25-2014, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

Simpson's Ltd has one for sale (has been listed for quite some time) for only $7295! It is listed as "German U Boat Ammo Storage Box".

That would make the French eBay offering at 850 Euros a bargain even if it has been polished! I guess not many of them survived the wars.

Norme · 09-25-2014, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Sabato

Wow Norm... you can learn something new here every day! Do you have a published reference that shows a device like this box? It would be neat to see photos of others that are similar...

Hi John, "Borchardt & Luger", Vol II, page 928.
Regards, Norm

Ben M. · 09-25-2014, 05:42 PM

not a soup pot for boats?

laoshi75 · 09-25-2014, 11:11 PM

Thank you Gentlemen. This strange box might have been made to keep many other things, not only Luger ammo...Like John, I would love to see some period photos of similar devices. From what you say all, it seems the auction on ebay is a bargain, even for a polished item. Wait and see... Thanks again to all !

laoshi75 · 09-25-2014, 11:28 PM

Here is the link on Simpson's Ltd ( Ron, thank you).
http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...ducts_id=22127
There is a marked paper in the box that would authentify the device...
Interesting auction.

saab-bob · 09-26-2014, 01:34 AM

Very interesting.
The Simpson's label says the box would hold 700 to 800 rounds.
Where the bullets just stored loose?
I would imagine everything on a WW1 u-boat was damp all the time,so it was a good idea.
Bob

LU1900 · 09-26-2014, 01:54 AM

On the ebay auction , the box is blue paint : not the original configuration
All the box is in zinc and the cover in bronze and brass
And the box hold 700 , the 800 is crossed out
Here is mine

alanint · 09-26-2014, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LU1900

On the ebay auction , the box is blue paint : not the original configuration
All the box is in zinc and the cover in bronze and brass
And the box hold 700 , the 800 is crossed out
Here is mine

Could you please show a closeup of the stamp in the middle of the brass lid?

Grantas · 09-27-2014, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saab-bob

Very interesting.
The Simpson's label says the box would hold 700 to 800 rounds.
Where the bullets just stored loose?
I would imagine everything on a WW1 u-boat was damp all the time,so it was a good idea.
Bob

A WWI Luger 16rd ammo packet measures 8.5 x 3 x 2 cm.
Listing on French EBay states the boxes dimensions as 23 x 16 x 9 cm. (Presume these are external measurements) so theoretically room enough for 50 packets (800rd). 700rd is weird in packet terms as divided by 16 it equals 43.75 packets. Maybe the 700 were packed loose.

Norme · 09-27-2014, 08:33 AM

Hi Patrice, Thanks for that information, it seems like nearly all of them are in France. If you hear of a nice one for sale, please let me know.
Best regards, Norm

MikeP · 09-26-2014, 03:28 AM

Still would be interesting to know how the rounds were stored-dumped in loose does not seem like an effective strategy to me.
I think in terms of some sort of "ready" storage with loaded mags.

laoshi75 · 09-26-2014, 04:56 AM

Patrice, je suis toujours admiratif devant l'importance et la qualité de ta collection...Bravo !!
I am always amazed to see the importance and quality of your collection...Congratulations my friend ! christian

SIGP2101 · 09-26-2014, 11:15 AM

I was thinking what are the chances that peace of paper would survive in that shape for so many years of harsh environment. White areas should have been yellowish/brown/moldy by now and with edges in that shape- looks like it was printed yesterday.

LU1900 · 09-26-2014, 07:24 PM

Here some stamps and THE label from other box !
Hope you enjoy :

Norme · 09-26-2014, 08:47 PM

Hi Patrice, Thanks for posting those photos of your very rare ammo container. I know of only four survivors, yours, one belonging to our mutual friend, the one on Ebay,and the fourth Simpson's, which I believe they purchased in Switzerland. Do you know of any others? I've now seen photos of the four I've mentioned, and they all seem to be stamped with the early three lobe crown/M, which was used no later than 1912 on the 1906 Navies. Another Navy mystery!
Best regards, Norm

09-25-2014, 12:45 PM	#1
laoshi75 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Thailand/France Posts: 491 Thanks: 288 Thanked 98 Times in 42 Posts	"Imperial german uboat navy luger box WW1" First time I see this accessory...but I know nothing about Navy stuff. What do you think Gentlemen please ? I am just curious... http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Boite-etanche...item4d24bb8183

09-25-2014, 01:56 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	It is my opinion, that while this box LOOKS interesting and MAY be genuine... unless you can find an illustration of this box in some kind of German Kriegsmarine manual, that you will never know what the origin is... it will all be speculation. It could have been made last week, or 100 years ago. It is a GREAT DEAL of money for a "maybe. " Without published provenance, I would have to pass. Just my $0.02 Christian... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-25-2014, 03:48 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Wow Norm... you can learn something new here every day! Do you have a published reference that shows a device like this box? It would be neat to see photos of others that are similar... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-25-2014, 04:06 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Simpson's Ltd has one for sale (has been listed for quite some time) for only $7295! It is listed as "German U Boat Ammo Storage Box". __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-26-2014, 01:34 AM	#11
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	Very interesting. The Simpson's label says the box would hold 700 to 800 rounds. Where the bullets just stored loose? I would imagine everything on a WW1 u-boat was damp all the time,so it was a good idea. Bob __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

09-25-2014, 02:23 PM	#3
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Christian, That watertight bronze storage box is genuine Imperial Navy, and was intended to keep P08 ammo dry on Uboats. They are very rare and very expensive, and I believe there are only one or two here in the US. Unfortunately the one in the auction looks like it's been buffed (polished) which will have a devastating effect on it's value. An unpolished one would sell for $5,000.00 or more. Regards, Norm

09-25-2014, 05:42 PM	#8
Ben M. User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Retired to Naples, FL. Posts: 498 Thanks: 96 Thanked 145 Times in 90 Posts	not a soup pot for boats?

09-25-2014, 11:11 PM	#9
laoshi75 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Thailand/France Posts: 491 Thanks: 288 Thanked 98 Times in 42 Posts	Thank you Gentlemen. This strange box might have been made to keep many other things, not only Luger ammo...Like John, I would love to see some period photos of similar devices. From what you say all, it seems the auction on ebay is a bargain, even for a polished item. Wait and see... Thanks again to all !

09-25-2014, 11:28 PM	#10
laoshi75 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Thailand/France Posts: 491 Thanks: 288 Thanked 98 Times in 42 Posts	Here is the link on Simpson's Ltd ( Ron, thank you). http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...ducts_id=22127 There is a marked paper in the box that would authentify the device... Interesting auction.

09-26-2014, 01:54 AM	#12
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 912 Thanks: 46 Thanked 473 Times in 199 Posts	On the ebay auction , the box is blue paint : not the original configuration All the box is in zinc and the cover in bronze and brass And the box hold 700 , the 800 is crossed out Here is mine Attached Thumbnails __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

09-27-2014, 08:33 AM	#15
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Patrice, Thanks for that information, it seems like nearly all of them are in France. If you hear of a nice one for sale, please let me know. Best regards, Norm

09-26-2014, 03:28 AM	#16
MikeP User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ILL Posts: 686 Thanks: 36 Thanked 452 Times in 198 Posts	Still would be interesting to know how the rounds were stored-dumped in loose does not seem like an effective strategy to me. I think in terms of some sort of "ready" storage with loaded mags.

09-26-2014, 04:56 AM	#17
laoshi75 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Thailand/France Posts: 491 Thanks: 288 Thanked 98 Times in 42 Posts	Patrice, je suis toujours admiratif devant l'importance et la qualité de ta collection...Bravo !! I am always amazed to see the importance and quality of your collection...Congratulations my friend ! christian

09-26-2014, 11:15 AM	#18
SIGP2101 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 256 Thanks: 74 Thanked 67 Times in 32 Posts	I was thinking what are the chances that peace of paper would survive in that shape for so many years of harsh environment. White areas should have been yellowish/brown/moldy by now and with edges in that shape- looks like it was printed yesterday.

09-26-2014, 07:24 PM	#19
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 912 Thanks: 46 Thanked 473 Times in 199 Posts	Here some stamps and THE label from other box ! Hope you enjoy : Attached Thumbnails Attached Images __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

09-26-2014, 08:47 PM	#20
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Patrice, Thanks for posting those photos of your very rare ammo container. I know of only four survivors, yours, one belonging to our mutual friend, the one on Ebay,and the fourth Simpson's, which I believe they purchased in Switzerland. Do you know of any others? I've now seen photos of the four I've mentioned, and they all seem to be stamped with the early three lobe crown/M, which was used no later than 1912 on the 1906 Navies. Another Navy mystery! Best regards, Norm