byf Commercial Luger?

dgp42 · 03-28-2002, 06:37 PM

On Auction Arms # 2524580 any ideas?

tracyp · 03-28-2002, 07:20 PM

I believe the serial number is in the correct range for a Bulgarian contract. But I believe it should have a date. It's not a commercial, it doesn't have the Mauser Banner on it.

John Sabato · 03-28-2002, 11:51 PM

Just my speculation... As I recall there is also no P.08 on the left flat of the grip frame... I will check tomorrow and see...

It's late and I am going to bed...

Good Night. - John

dgp42 · 03-29-2002, 01:09 PM

the seller emailed me a pic of top of pistol. no chamber date and toggle is byf marked. there is a P-08 on the frame and all mumbers are supposedly matched # 5422m. could it be a late war variation as seen in Still's 3rd Reich Lugers?

John Sabato · 03-29-2002, 04:20 PM

one way or another. I suppose it could have been one of the put-togethers at the Mauser factory for US GI's after the capture and prior to any date being stamped on the receiver ring - but that is a lot of "if's"

The unusual eagle proof next to the serial number on the upper receiver is slightly smeared or poorly applied... but there is enough of it there to recognize that it is possibly proof symbol #61 as shown in the technical information link on the left on the "Proof 6" Page. If this is true the explanation there is:

"61. Nazi era commercial proof found on Lugers reworked by independent shops such as Anschutz and Vono"

It could also resemble #52 on the "Proof 5" page, in which case the explanation could be:

"52. Receiver proof found on SOME Mauser manufactured Dutch contract Lugers."

check the serial number stamps in the side of the upper receiver to see if they are the same size and font used on the front of the grip frame, and as the last two digits on most of the larger parts like the sideplate. If there is a disparity here, I would tend to doubt that the entire pistol is original. On the other hand, if the finish appears to be un-messed with, and the serial number comparison is favorable, then it could just as easily be genuine. We will never know without some form of documentation that very likely no longer exists...

My best guess at this point is that the proof is #61...

Just my $0.02, anyone else care to comment?

regards,

John Sabato

03-29-2002, 07:24 PM

I saw an unmarked Luger at a gunshow a few weeks back. Wear overall was consistent, visible sns matched, grips looked correct, no markings on receiver, no date on chamber, did have proof marks in correct places.

Roadkill

03-28-2002, 06:37 PM	#1
dgp42 User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Central Calif. Coast Posts: 50 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	byf Commercial Luger? On Auction Arms # 2524580 any ideas?

03-28-2002, 07:20 PM	#2
tracyp User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Peoples Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 391 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: byf Commercial Luger? I believe the serial number is in the correct range for a Bulgarian contract. But I believe it should have a date. It's not a commercial, it doesn't have the Mauser Banner on it.

03-28-2002, 11:51 PM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	I think it's a phony... a parts gun using a 20's unmarked receiver Just my speculation... As I recall there is also no P.08 on the left flat of the grip frame... I will check tomorrow and see... It's late and I am going to bed... Good Night. - John

03-29-2002, 01:09 PM	#4
dgp42 User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Central Calif. Coast Posts: 50 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: I think it's a phony... a parts gun using a 20's unmarked receiver the seller emailed me a pic of top of pistol. no chamber date and toggle is byf marked. there is a P-08 on the frame and all mumbers are supposedly matched # 5422m. could it be a late war variation as seen in Still's 3rd Reich Lugers?

03-29-2002, 04:20 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	This is always a possibility, but how would you prove it one way or another. I suppose it could have been one of the put-togethers at the Mauser factory for US GI's after the capture and prior to any date being stamped on the receiver ring - but that is a lot of "if's" The unusual eagle proof next to the serial number on the upper receiver is slightly smeared or poorly applied... but there is enough of it there to recognize that it is possibly proof symbol #61 as shown in the technical information link on the left on the "Proof 6" Page. If this is true the explanation there is: "61. Nazi era commercial proof found on Lugers reworked by independent shops such as Anschutz and Vono" It could also resemble #52 on the "Proof 5" page, in which case the explanation could be: "52. Receiver proof found on SOME Mauser manufactured Dutch contract Lugers." check the serial number stamps in the side of the upper receiver to see if they are the same size and font used on the front of the grip frame, and as the last two digits on most of the larger parts like the sideplate. If there is a disparity here, I would tend to doubt that the entire pistol is original. On the other hand, if the finish appears to be un-messed with, and the serial number comparison is favorable, then it could just as easily be genuine. We will never know without some form of documentation that very likely no longer exists... My best guess at this point is that the proof is #61... Just my $0.02, anyone else care to comment? regards, John Sabato

03-29-2002, 07:24 PM	#6
R. Grady/Roadkill Guest Posts: n/a	Re: This is always a possibility, but how would you prove it I saw an unmarked Luger at a gunshow a few weeks back. Wear overall was consistent, visible sns matched, grips looked correct, no markings on receiver, no date on chamber, did have proof marks in correct places. Roadkill