Luger spring steel...

[G.T.]

On the metals chart that Gerben was kind enough to post... they list the coils springs for the Swiss as made from FD 09 material, and the new Mauser just as Federstahldraht II ....Oooooh kayyyyy...What in the H@)) are they talking about??......... I can't find anything on the internet about what properties these steels possess... Can our European friends enlighten me??... Best to all, til...lat'r....GT.....

[Vlim]

Federstahldraht II would translate as 'spring steel wire II'. Not much help, I guess.

It should conform to the DIN classs DIN 17223/1, DIN17223.

http://sanyosteel.com/files/DIN/DIN%...3-Part%201.pdf

[G.T.]

Hi Gerben, I have looked into this type of spring wire, and to be truthful feels it leaves something to be desired... ... It looks as if they used the best available at the time.. It would be interesting to see/know the test results of each components coil spring ... Life, cycle, set, fatigue, failure ... and so on... Also, it looks like most of the coil springs were at the very end of their design parameter.. as in squeezed to solid most every time!! Interesting stuff!.... Thanks again Gerben, best to you, til....lat'r....GT

[Vlim]

Hi G.T.

Rolf Gminder told us that they had a lot of problems with the main springs of the post war Parabellum initially. They then called on the guy who had designed the springs for the MG42 during WW2. He was able to come up with a spring solution that worked. If I remember correctly, this guy had developed the intertwined coil springs used in the machine guns.

An interesting side note is that Rolf took out a patent on a design for an adjustable main spring for the Mauser Parabellum. The solution was actually quite clever. The bottom of the spring hook was constructed with a threaded bushing, where a set screw could be screwed in. By adjusting this set screw, the spring tension was increased or decreased.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Vlim

An interesting side note is that Rolf took out a patent on a design for an adjustable main spring for the Mauser Parabellum.

You're right; the original drawings are terrible. And the ten pages of text are in some furschlugginer foreign language!!!

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

You're right; the original drawings are terrible. And the ten pages of text are in some furschlugginer foreign language!!!

Sheepherder,

You know, educated Germans speak at least three languages fluently and English is one of them.

Here, we are lucky to even speak one properly.


Sieger

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Sieger

Sheepherder,

You know, educated Germans speak at least three languages fluently and English is one of them.

And that makes you Germans superior to us Americans???

I unfriend you!

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

And that makes you Germans superior to us Americans???

I unfriend you!

Sheepherder,

I don't know that being able to speak three languages makes anyone superior, but it sure does make it easier on the American tourists traveling in Germany. The classical German education includes German, French and English.

Traveling in France is much more difficult, as even the young people there may not speak anything but French.

Sieger

PS: I've actually learned quite a bit of Spanish, here in NYC. It just makes things easier.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Vlim

An interesting side note is that Rolf took out a patent on a design for an adjustable main spring for the Mauser Parabellum. The solution was actually quite clever. The bottom of the spring hook was constructed with a threaded bushing, where a set screw could be screwed in. By adjusting this set screw, the spring tension was increased or decreased.

I'm not sure that it was a 'setscrew' (although I haven't tried to read the text)...

Looking at the second drawing [below], it looks like a split nut, with the nut being spirally split...

From the pics, I can't figure out how Rolf adjusted it...

I had envisioned a long nut with a simple slot [for a screwdriver] and a threaded mainspring guide...You'd need outside access as well [a hole]...This actually sounds do-able...

[John Sabato]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I'm not sure that it was a 'setscrew' (although I haven't tried to read the text)...

Looking at the second drawing [below], it looks like a split nut, with the nut being spirally split...

From the pics, I can't figure out how Rolf adjusted it...

I had envisioned a long nut with a simple slot [for a screwdriver] and a threaded mainspring guide...You'd need outside access as well [a hole]...This actually sounds do-able...

A little imagination Rich... your description of how you envisioned it is actually how it would work...

What I glean from the engineering illustration images (and your description )... is that the spiral split in the nut would allow it to be twisted slightly during manufacture that would increase the torque with which the threads held the bottom of the spring guide when it was installed.

Sort of a self clamping lock nut, that would clamp hard enough to hamper drifting of the nut during spring tensioning and relaxing but could still be turned using the slot in the bottom to increase or decrease the amount of spring tension. A pretty clever idea if you have enough room to implement it.

You wouldn't need an outside "hole" for the adjustments as they would be seldom necessary once you achieved the appropriate tension. Initial adjustment would be made with the grips removed and a special spanner type wrench.

To quote the sheepherder,

Originally Posted by sheepherder

...This actually sounds do-able...

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by John Sabato

You wouldn't need an outside "hole" for the adjustments as they would be seldom necessary once you achieved the appropriate tension. Initial adjustment would be made with the grips removed and a special spanner type wrench.

My thought was that the mainspring could be adjusted on-the-fly, to compensate for different loads/bullet weights. My experience with this has been the FN-49 which uses a gas regulator with different size orifices to increase or decrease gas pressure. I'm sure other rifles use a similar system [BrEN, FAL?].

If you didn't want to have a quick-access hole, then the nut could have flats (as you suggest) or holes for adjustment. That would require grip removal...

Interesting idea. If Rolf went to such pains to patent it, why did it never make it into production???

Either on the Mauser-Luger or as an accessory...

[Curss]

Adjustable coil spring?!?! COOL!!! I WANT ONE!!!

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by G.T.

On the metals chart that Gerben was kind enough to post... they list the coils springs for the Swiss as made from FD 09 material, and the new Mauser just as Federstahldraht II ....Oooooh kayyyyy...What in the H@)) are they talking about??......... I can't find anything on the internet about what properties these steels possess... Can our European friends enlighten me??... Best to all, til...lat'r....GT.....

GT,

You may remember that I sent you a brand new Interarms Parabellum 9mm recoil spring some years ago. These are great, and even work with the hotter ammo.

At one time, we both swore an oath not to leave this earth until we had perfected and marketed a proper recoil spring for the Parabellum.

Sieger

[mrerick]

Ahhhhh.. Sieger...

I think that I may have stumbled upon the solution for France.

I studied French in school for a few years from someone that has a regional Parisian accent. As a result, I'm told my limited French has that posh accent. But.... I didn't study long enough, or use the language to the extent where my vocabulary exceeded that of a 5 year old.

So, when I attempt to converse in French in France, it's so offensive that the conversant mercifully switches to English. Vive la France!

Marc

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by mrerick

Ahhhhh.. Sieger...

I think that I may have stumbled upon the solution for France.

I studied French in school for a few years from someone that has a regional Parisian accent. As a result, I'm told my limited French has that posh accent. But.... I didn't study long enough, or use the language to the extent where my vocabulary exceeded that of a 5 year old.

So, when I attempt to converse in French in France, it's so offensive that the conversant mercifully switches to English. Vive la France!

Marc

mrerick,

You know, at one time I spoke German quite well, but when I've traveled there, the Germans, somehow, recognize the fact that I'm an American and all start speaking English to me.

I don't know whether it's the clothing, the larger body type or just what it is. Anyway, we've reached a good compromise, as I speak German and they answer back in English?!?

Not to be overbearing, but English has become the international language, worldwide, perhaps strengthened by internet usage.


Sieger

[John Sabato]

Originally Posted by Sieger

mrerick,

Not to be overbearing, but English has become the international language, worldwide, perhaps strengthened by internet usage.


Sieger

I can confirm this... on my recent vacation to China, our English speaking guide comfirmed that after the cultural revolution, the education system, which had pushed Russian as a second language (remember, same system of government) has transitioned to English as a mandatory subject in schools. They start them on English at a very early age... so if you are lost while visiting china, don't ask any of the older generation for assistance unless you speak Russian.

Regarding German... I took two years of study in High School, and two years in College. In both cases, my instructors were native speakers so whatever accent they used is what I acquired.

When I had occasion to visit Deutschland while on active duty, my acquired accent would frequently enable me to conceal the fact that I was not a native during short public discussions with strangers such as asking directions or recommendations of menu items in restaurants... at least until they asked me something I didn't understand and I had to resort to a phrase book or dictionary...

Once in a train compartment between Frankfurt and Munchen, an elderly lady opened her lunch and offered fruit to the rest of the occupants including me. It had been probably 15 years since I had spoken any German, but when she offered me an apple I thanked her and told her I wasn't hungry. Then she rattled off a question that had something to do with my jacket, but I didn't understand, I responded that I was sorry but I don't speak German. One of the other male occupants in the comparment quickly laughed and said, (in German) then what are you speaking? We all laughed and I told them I was an American. I had to show them my passport so they would believe me. The elderly lady then spoke to me in perfect English to tell me she had been an English teacher in the German school system until she had retired and had not had the opportunity to practice her english in years... We talked for a couple hours on the condition that she would speak only in English, and I had to respond in German if I could. When I could not, and I responded in English, she would then teach me the German equivilent of what I has said. I ended up sharing her fruit too. It was a great memory of my time in Germany.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by mrerick

I studied French in school for a few years from someone that has a regional Parisian accent. As a result, I'm told my limited French has that posh accent. But.... I didn't study long enough, or use the language to the extent where my vocabulary exceeded that of a 5 year old.

So, when I attempt to converse in French in France, it's so offensive that the conversant mercifully switches to English. Vive la France!

Marc

I had the opposite experience...I took German in high school, and when I found out I would be visiting Germany with the Air Force, I took a crash course in 'conversational German' at night school [local high school]...I was told that the Germans I encountered in Southern Germany appreciated my efforts...(My instructor told me my grammar was terrible but my accent was perfect, whatever that means)...There were a lot of jokes that the Bundeswehr Luftwaffe soldiers I drank with would one day show up on my doorstep, here in the USA...Ready to party...

[saab-bob]

Seiger
There is another reason English has because so universal. English is the mandated language of civil aviation.
Besides my limited English skills,I know some Spanish. Mostly by the process of osmosis!
Bob

[John Sabato]

Originally Posted by saab-bob

Seiger
There is another reason English has because so universal. English is the mandated language of civil aviation.
Besides my limited English skills,I know some Spanish. Mostly by the process of osmosis!
Bob

Sieger, your statement reminded me of a story I think I read about in Reader's Digest "Humor in Uniform" section decades ago...

The pilot of a Luftthansa commercial aircraft was on the approach to Frankfurt when he requested landing instructions from the tower in German. The tower quickly admonished him that all communications were required to be in English. His response was a little snooty and went something like: "I am a German pilot, flying a German commercial airliner, and intend to land at a German airport, why do I have to use English to land my airplane?"... Before the tower could respond, the airwaves crackled with a response from an unidentified U.S. Air Force pilot who was flying nearby: "Because WE won the war, and you DIDN'T!"

The tower requested to know which aircraft and pilot had made the comment, but I am sure you know that there was no further comment!

[m1903a3]

Originally Posted by John Sabato

The pilot of a Luftthansa commercial aircraft was on the approach to Frankfurt when he requested landing instructions from the tower in German. The tower quickly admonished him that all communications were required to be in English. His response was a little snooty and went something like: "I am a German pilot, flying a German commercial airliner, and intend to land at a German airport, why do I have to use English to land my airplane?"... Before the tower could respond, the airwaves crackled with a response from an unidentified U.S. Air Force pilot who was flying nearby: "Because WE won the war, and you DIDN'T!"

I remember that joke from the sixties, albeit with a more succinct "Because you lost!" from the American pilot.

There was similar one circulating at the same time that had a British BOAC pilot landing in Berlin. When he requested progressive taxi instructions the German controller haughtedly asked "Haven't you ever been to Berlin?" The Brit promptly replied: "Many times. But only at night and I never landed."