Translate Unit Markings, Please

Robert · 03-14-2001, 10:40 PM

Hi:

Can someone translate the following unit markings from a 1914 Luger my grandfather brought back from WWII?

S.K.42.4

What unit markings are rarer than others? Are any unit markings more particularly valuable?

TIA

03-15-2001, 02:41 AM

Looks like a police department property number from the Weimar era. S stands for Schutzpolizei and K is the Prussian city abbreviation. I don't know the city but some one should be able to find it in Jan Still's book. There is the possibility this is a school marking. With the two numbers, it is a bit hard to nail down for me. If it was a single number or a roman numeral followed by an Arabic number, the police designation would be correct.

The most popular markings, though not the rarest, are the naval property marks that begin with "N" or "O". The "MG" marked pistols are popular and relatively common (machine gun units). K Kavallerie units are popular though not as much as MG units. Dragoner units "D" are similar to K.

The hospital/train markings are some of my favorite and are either "S" (sanitats) or script "T" which is artistically stamped on guns. For some odd reason, the T of train units is often if not always in fancy script. All other markings I have seen are crudely stamped.

Perhaps the rarest and also popular markings are the "Fl" flieger troops (flying units) but I have not seen one.

dave

dave_j · 03-15-2001, 05:35 AM

To mac,sounds like you know what you are talking about!

Maybe you can help me with this strange one,I'm sure its a parts gun(its gotta be)1918 Erfurt with frame number in usual place, that to me looks original but I could be wrong!

The number is in roman it is XIV. It is my only Luger and of course I cant sleep without knowing its complete history! Ha Ha!

Any help on the number would be a bonus!

Cheers

Dave

Patrick · 03-15-2001, 09:56 AM

Schutzpolizei KÃ?Â¶slin; # Hundertschaft (a unit of 100 men); weapon # etc. Patrick P.S.Does it have a sear safety (or the pin hole for the spring)?

dave_j · 03-16-2001, 03:51 AM

Patrick,thank you for your reply,I'm not quite sure what you meant in regards to the safety but it appears to be the normal feature,left thumb operation with a polished bar on left side,what I would call the safety bar. Not sure if this answers your question. As my German is a little bit rusty, if you have time could you explain to me what is

Schutzpolizei Koslin....Hundertschaft (the unit of 100)

Is there a reference book? The reciever/ barrel is numbered 5206.

Regards Dave

Patrick · 03-16-2001, 02:52 PM

The German police nearly always had a sear safety on their Lugers. It is a spring that is riveted onto the sear and held in place with a small pin. It stops the receiver being fired when the gun has been dismantled. Even if the sear safety (called a Schiwy) is missing, the pin hole on top of the sear might be there. This would be proof that yours is a police Luger. Schutzpolizei was the standard police force. The organizational unit was the Hundertschaft (1 hundred men). KÃ?Â¶slin is a town in what is now Poland but was then part of Germany. There is a very good reference book on Luger markings:German Small Arms Markings by Joachim GÃ?Â¶rtz and Don L. Bryans (Walsworth Publishing Co., Marceline, MO). GÃ?Â¶rtz is one of the two leading experts on Lugers. Patrick

bill m · 03-16-2001, 04:42 PM

I do not think this is a police marking. The 42 doesn't make sense in a police marking. This is not the 42nd precinct, which if it was a precinct it should be in roman numerals. I think this is a WW1 regiment marking, but I do not have a clue what it is.

03-14-2001, 10:40 PM	#1
Robert User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Translate Unit Markings, Please Hi: Can someone translate the following unit markings from a 1914 Luger my grandfather brought back from WWII? S.K.42.4 What unit markings are rarer than others? Are any unit markings more particularly valuable? TIA

03-15-2001, 02:41 AM	#2
mac Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Translate Unit Markings, Please Looks like a police department property number from the Weimar era. S stands for Schutzpolizei and K is the Prussian city abbreviation. I don't know the city but some one should be able to find it in Jan Still's book. There is the possibility this is a school marking. With the two numbers, it is a bit hard to nail down for me. If it was a single number or a roman numeral followed by an Arabic number, the police designation would be correct. The most popular markings, though not the rarest, are the naval property marks that begin with "N" or "O". The "MG" marked pistols are popular and relatively common (machine gun units). K Kavallerie units are popular though not as much as MG units. Dragoner units "D" are similar to K. The hospital/train markings are some of my favorite and are either "S" (sanitats) or script "T" which is artistically stamped on guns. For some odd reason, the T of train units is often if not always in fancy script. All other markings I have seen are crudely stamped. Perhaps the rarest and also popular markings are the "Fl" flieger troops (flying units) but I have not seen one. dave

03-15-2001, 05:35 AM	#3
dave_j User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 33 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Translate Unit Markings, Please To mac,sounds like you know what you are talking about! Maybe you can help me with this strange one,I'm sure its a parts gun(its gotta be)1918 Erfurt with frame number in usual place, that to me looks original but I could be wrong! The number is in roman it is XIV. It is my only Luger and of course I cant sleep without knowing its complete history! Ha Ha! Any help on the number would be a bonus! Cheers Dave

03-15-2001, 09:56 AM	#4
Patrick User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 241 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Translate Unit Markings, Please Schutzpolizei KÃ?Â¶slin; # Hundertschaft (a unit of 100 men); weapon # etc. Patrick P.S.Does it have a sear safety (or the pin hole for the spring)?

03-16-2001, 03:51 AM	#5
dave_j User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 33 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Translate Unit Markings, Please Patrick,thank you for your reply,I'm not quite sure what you meant in regards to the safety but it appears to be the normal feature,left thumb operation with a polished bar on left side,what I would call the safety bar. Not sure if this answers your question. As my German is a little bit rusty, if you have time could you explain to me what is Schutzpolizei Koslin....Hundertschaft (the unit of 100) Is there a reference book? The reciever/ barrel is numbered 5206. Regards Dave

03-16-2001, 02:52 PM	#6
Patrick User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 241 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Translate Unit Markings, Please The German police nearly always had a sear safety on their Lugers. It is a spring that is riveted onto the sear and held in place with a small pin. It stops the receiver being fired when the gun has been dismantled. Even if the sear safety (called a Schiwy) is missing, the pin hole on top of the sear might be there. This would be proof that yours is a police Luger. Schutzpolizei was the standard police force. The organizational unit was the Hundertschaft (1 hundred men). KÃ?Â¶slin is a town in what is now Poland but was then part of Germany. There is a very good reference book on Luger markings:German Small Arms Markings by Joachim GÃ?Â¶rtz and Don L. Bryans (Walsworth Publishing Co., Marceline, MO). GÃ?Â¶rtz is one of the two leading experts on Lugers. Patrick

03-16-2001, 04:42 PM	#7
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Translate Unit Markings, Please I do not think this is a police marking. The 42 doesn't make sense in a police marking. This is not the 42nd precinct, which if it was a precinct it should be in roman numerals. I think this is a WW1 regiment marking, but I do not have a clue what it is.