Finding a P-08 Today

johnii · 12-08-2013, 11:20 AM

I remember there was a time when a P-08 was sold as almost junk in the 1960s and then the prices just kept going up with "matching parts" four times above the times they could be had in the 1960's. Now it seems to find a true P-08 has become a hurdle and after that hurdle all the details about parts and date come in to make them all over the board to thousands and thousands of dollars.

I have been looking online since 2000 at for sale P-08s from all sorts of places and dates and now I see they all are still rising in cost.

It is hard to find a P-08 without spending a lot of money.

There have been reproductions of the P-08 from Huston, TX and other places but they always fall way short of the original P-08s made in Germany.

Am I correct so far?

The question I have is why what was once a surplus cheap item after WWII is now a very expensive buy today and yesterday (yesteryear)?

Can a gun company duplicate the machinery and make a P-08 today with the same tolerances?

I am wondering and if so can that gun company profit by doing so?

Edward Tinker · 12-08-2013, 11:40 AM

no, yes, no, yes

It is much more complicated than being said above.

In the 1970's Mausers they did remake the luger, it was not a huge success - at the time, too much and probably too many originals out there. Many folks have improved them by make new models, new calibers, etc.

The new made ones aren't interchangable in parts

They were always more expensive than many other guns years ago, so it depends on what you consider cheap? A $35 luger is cheap, cheap / today - but how much was a person making that a week back then?

Mosin Nagants are cheap today and were cheaper five years ago - the import market will dry up with them and their price will rise....

MikeP · 12-08-2013, 06:01 PM

When Luger were $25 for rig, I was making a buck an hour.
True that an "unmessed with" example is a lot harder to find and you need to look very hard at what you do find.

mrerick · 12-08-2013, 10:37 PM

People have looked at manufacturing new Lugers to the original specifications and quality. The price would be way over $5000.

Mauser tried to do it in the 1970s through 1980s and couldn't make sales at a price that would give a decent profit. That's why they stopped.

Other than the ones that Mauser and Krieghoff have made, I don't think there have been any mass manufacture of modern Lugers of good lasting quality.

So... we have what were made in the past, and the products of Waffenfabrik Minnesota, etc...(the fakers). They are expensive because of the demand for a limited number of Lugers that are extant. Every collectable Luger that gets damaged reduces the available number, and increases rarity.

When you wait for a bus on the corner, you can wave it by because it costs too much (value less than the utility of the trip). Eventually, you either get on the bus, or get cold standing on the corner.

Marc

johnii · 12-09-2013, 04:24 PM

I was born in 1957 and remember the 1960's and even 1958 and 1959. I was never interested in P-08s although I remember the squirt guns patterned after them filled with water to spray somebody back in 1962. The P-08 was an available squirt gun in 1962 and that was when I first saw a "model" of a P-08 in first grade.

In the 60's there was a killer named the Zodiac in the Bay Area and I lived in the Bay Area (Kentfield, CA) when this was happening. He used the P-08 in a town just off Interstate 80 from Black Point to Reno. Then the P-08 was identified as the weapon used by the Zodiac. The P-08 by this time appeared in a lot of WWII movies and also with Frank Sinatra (and others) in the First Deadly Sin and the Manchurian Candidate. I remember these movies as a youngster. Then the P-08 is all over the movies about the Third Reich and WWII. I still had no fascination for the P-08. Until I finally shot one after shooting Hi Powers and CZ 75s and Beretta M-9s. My first two P-08s were DWM commercials and then I got a real P-08 from WWII (the 1937 S/42 Mauser) recovered from a WWII veteran who used it to buy a new roof over his house with a roofer and the roofer walked into my door with it after roofing our house and he wanted to know if I'd buy it and I took it apart seeing all matching except for the magazine and bought it from him for $900. I told him ahead of time he might get more looking elsewhere to sell it but he decided to sell it to me. That is the Story of the 1937 I've pictured here, Serial number 4068 suffix "b". Not reblued all original and it shoots a foot high at 50 yards but other than that it is deadly accurate when you aim low!

Then I got the 1936 reblued all original without the Mauser Bump but all matching in steel except for the grips. Matching magazine included.

The DWM's I had had mismatched parts and neither one of them shot 100% reliability. These do.

I think matching parts make the difference. Whether reblued or not.

To date I find a working P-08 hard to find without paying for it. To date I know there are reproductions that cost too much to make to be a real success.

I am here to continue the journey to find WWII Military S/42s of other dates with all matching parts. I am not going to do DWM or Erfurt or Swiss or Navy or other. I am concentrating on true WWII Third Reich Soldier P-08s. That is my interest.

I suppose that is also my endorsement for anyone finding an S/42 Military Third Reich P-08. I know there are rarities in the Swiss Luger and the Navy and other things but to me I like the S/42 over the rest and I can buy more of them than one rare Navy or Swiss Luger. Does this make sense?

Edward Tinker · 12-09-2013, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnii

.... Does this make sense?

sure if thats what you like

I remember seeing the ads for lugers from the early 60's and earlier for $65 or so - and I am only 3 yrs younger

Arizona Slim · 12-09-2013, 06:15 PM

I was speaking with a fellow Luger enthusiast from Florida the other day, a gentleman in his early 80's that I had just made a purchase from on ebay, he told me that his first Luger was an Artillery that he paid a whopping $17.00 for, I didn't get the year he made the purchase but I think it was in the early or middle 50's, anyway it made think I may have overpaid for the 1917 Artillery I bought at auction in early 1964 for the princely sum of $56.00, just kidding.

My monthly salary at that time was $350.00.

Lon

johnii · 12-10-2013, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arizona Slim

I was speaking with a fellow Luger enthusiast from Florida the other day, a gentleman in his early 80's that I had just made a purchase from on ebay, he told me that his first Luger was an Artillery that he paid a whopping $17.00 for, I didn't get the year he made the purchase but I think it was in the early or middle 50's, anyway it made think I may have overpaid for the 1917 Artillery I bought at auction in early 1964 for the princely sum of $56.00, just kidding.

My monthly salary at that time was $350.00.

Lon

So what did you pay aside from historical payments paid for P-08s?

I said in the 1960's P-08s were surplus sold at dirt cheap prices. What did you pay for your 1917 Artillery? Okay I get it. You didn't buy it but now you wish you had!

That is my point. P-08s were DIRT CHEAP in the 1960's and today they are very expensive. We pay the expense today because no handgun in the world produced today compares to the P-08. We know recent repros are JUNK compared to what the Third Reich and previous German Luger pistol in WWI. I rest my case.

If you want a real Luger P-08 you buy the original and you avoid Huston TX or whoever to reproduce the real item. I am reinforcing our love for the historical P-08. I had an Erfurt that malfunctioned in .30 Luger and I took it back. It was a WWI P-08. I was reimbursed. I never had a problem with WWII S/42 and that is why I like them to shoot them.

Repros like Mitchell and Huston or Eagle or whoever are not selling the quality of a WWI or WWII P-08. Are we not on the same sheet of music here?

Swiss and Navy and Artillery expensive models are probably faulty to shoot over and over again without devaluing them. Not the S/42 issued military soldier sidearm. I want working guns. Not safe queens.

johnii · 12-10-2013, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

sure if thats what you like

I remember seeing the ads for lugers from the early 60's and earlier for $65 or so - and I am only 3 yrs younger

Okay. Does three years younger mean 1954 or 1960?

I'm 1957 birth date.

mrerick · 12-09-2013, 08:32 PM

So... you're in the right place to find a Luger offered directly by a collector for sale.

Just keep your eye on the for sale area, and be patient.

Marc

Lyn Islaub · 12-09-2013, 11:12 PM

All collectable firearms are getting more expensive than they used to be and we all make more money that we did 40 years ago. I bought a 1942 Remington-Rand 1911 rig a few weeks ago that came with the original NRA paperwork from 1960. Pistol, holster, belt and double magazine pouch was $17.00 back then. Those were the days. Needless to say, the rig was a bit more expensive now.

cirelaw · 12-10-2013, 10:19 AM

We owe it all to 3 names..Fred Datig in 1958, Harry Jones in 1959 and Charles Kenyan in 1969 All are even more relevant today! Lugers at Random had the most impact! I think it opened everyones' eyes! I believe Kenyans' book which had been reprinted multible times was responsible of causing the rise of luger prices, providing relevance and attention to luger collecting in over 400 pages! People then pulled out their old dusty luger relics and found out what the had for the first time. There are probobly Several still hiding!

johnii · 12-10-2013, 03:05 PM

It all goes to the value of a P-08 with all matching parts. Were ever it comes from. Mismatches are subject to devaluation and matched numbers mean the real thing. You can get a mismatch P-08 that shoots for a shooter and be happy with it. After all, the tolerances to produce a P-08 are beyond what is manufactured today with CNC or MIM.

Ergo the CNC and MIM mean nothing to us. Right?

When you get a P-08 with all matching it is a sort of heaven of discovery. I get that. That is the realm I am in and no MIM or CNC will ever match it.

I'd rather have mismatch parts from a working P-08 than a recent MIM or CNC reproduction. That's why no recent (after WWII) reproduction is worthless to me.

Rebluing? I don't care. All matching parts? I care.

Fact is no commercial company after WWII is even close to a mismatched part WWII P-08. I won't buy a mismatched WWII P-08 in the first place and I'll never buy a reproduction made with MIM and CNC.

I want matched parts from WWII and I have them in my two P-08s. Reblued or not.

The Third Reich had standards that no one today can ever reproduce. They did not have MIM or CNC then. They stamped every single part.

The S/42 to me is the true issued mass P-08 for soldiers of the Third Reich. The Navy and Swiss are another realm to admire and spend lots of money for.

I'd rather have an issued S/42 than the rest. I am opinionated. I like S/42 Military. I can perhaps look into Swiss and Navy later on but in the meantime I am picking up S/42 issued to the Third Reich. Erfurts? I don't care at this time. I want working functioning P-08s from the Third Reich. All the rest are collector fantasy for the money they pay for it.

The S/42 works and most other WWI or other don't work. If they do work they are too expensive to fire repeatedly with the accuracy of the P-08. WWI P-08s have a lot of damage in the bore and in the original parts to fire. They will break in time to be useless to fire or useless to fire because they are so old and cherished by collectors.

I want a working gun when I buy a gun. It will not be a safe queen to show others. It will be a firing and functional P-08.

My view.

Ajruger · 12-10-2013, 09:52 PM

I just have to ask. How can you possibly remember 1958 & 1959 when you were just born in 57? Must have some memory.

johnii · 12-11-2013, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajruger

I just have to ask. How can you possibly remember 1958 & 1959 when you were just born in 57? Must have some memory.

Yeah I do. I memorized the Gospel of John and Romans and Phillipians and Ephesians and Jude and Revelation and the three John Letters (I,II,III) with Isaiah and Joel and Matthew (Gospel) and Habakkuk and I Corinthians and II Corinthians in 1978 all together.

I do remember when I was a year old. And afterwards. I have a good memory.

I memorized Lord of the Flies (Golding) and Fahrenheit 451 (Bradbury) and The Prisoner of Chillon (Lord Byron) and Tintern Abbey (Wordsworth) and La Belle Dame Sans Merci (Keats) along with Johnny Got His Gun (Dalton Trumbo) and Heart of Darkness (Robert Conrad) and The Twelve Caesars by Suetonius. Other texts as well but you get my point here.

Most kids don't remember before 5 years of age but that is not my case.

So, your point now is?.............

wlyon · 12-10-2013, 10:18 PM

In 1961 I had just graduated from college ( after 4 years in the Navy). I went to work as a Federal Forester for $4040 per year. That was $336 per month before taxes ,health insurance etc. My take home was around $270 per month. Yes lugers were selling for $60 to $80 but that was a third of my take home pay! So take a third of your present monthly salary and you have a comparison for what you would pay today for a luger. Example you earn $60000 per year or $5000 per month luger sells for $1650. Sure I earned more over the years but lugers prices were also going up. Bill

johnii · 12-11-2013, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wlyon

In 1961 I had just graduated from college ( after 4 years in the Navy). I went to work as a Federal Forester for $4040 per year. That was $336 per month before taxes ,health insurance etc. My take home was around $270 per month. Yes lugers were selling for $60 to $80 but that was a third of my take home pay! So take a third of your present monthly salary and you have a comparison for what you would pay today for a luger. Example you earn $60000 per year or $5000 per month luger sells for $1650. Sure I earned more over the years but lugers prices were also going up. Bill

Right. The P-08 Luger is, to me, the most fascinating 9mm and .30 Luger semi automatic to me. It is historic. It is a fine pistol in my mind. I also like Walthers (PP, PPK, PPK/S). I like this focus instead of the eternal focus on a 1911. I have owned a lot of 1911s. My prize is a WWI Colt issued to the US Army. My second is a Colt Model 07810DXS w/XS sights and 3" Barrel (Kind of modern last I looked). I also have the the Philippine Manilla American Classic by Metro Arms Commander (Code ACC45C) that works every time. I've owned a lot of 1911s in .45 ACP and to tell you the truth the 1911s I own now are functioning and accurate 1911s. Wish I could say the same for Springfield Armory but no. Kimbers work. I've had a few of them. I don't own them anymore. When I downsized I went for my Colts and the Thrilla Manilla (Ali) 1911.

I have an open mind when it comes to experimenting and using guns. I only keep what works every time.

The S/42s I have work every time. They are issued military soldier hand weapons. I respect them.

GySgt1811 · 12-11-2013, 08:39 PM

"Yeah I do. I memorized the Gospel of John and Romans and Phillipians and Ephesians and Jude and Revelation and the three John Letters (I,II,III) with Isaiah and Joel and Matthew (Gospel) and Habakkuk and I Corinthians and II Corinthians in 1978 all together."

Just curious...which translation; Aramaic, Septuagint or Masoretic Hebrew for the OT; and Koine Greek, Latin Vulgate, or maybe English Tyndal, King James or Douay Confraternity for the NT?

I'm partial to the Aramaic text of Isaiah from Q4Isa3.

Regards,

Gunny John

johnii · 12-12-2013, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GySgt1811

"Yeah I do. I memorized the Gospel of John and Romans and Phillipians and Ephesians and Jude and Revelation and the three John Letters (I,II,III) with Isaiah and Joel and Matthew (Gospel) and Habakkuk and I Corinthians and II Corinthians in 1978 all together."

Just curious...which translation; Aramaic, Septuagint or Masoretic Hebrew for the OT; and Koine Greek, Latin Vulgate, or maybe English Tyndal, King James or Douay Confraternity for the NT?

I'm partial to the Aramaic text of Isaiah from Q4Isa3.

Regards,

Gunny John

I also can translate the Original Classic Greek used in the New Testament. I majored in pre medicine and ended up in a Seminary, San Francisco Theological Seminary in 2 Kensington Rd, San Anselmo. I had to learn Hebrew and Greek and exegete the texts from the original manuscripts which are Papyri and Alexandrian and historical.

Halfway through the 4 years required to get a Master's in Divinity we had choices to either go Hebrew or Classical Greek in translating for the Ordination Boards. I went Greek.

The texts today translated from the original Greek are dated by modern Greek language but it doesn't change the fact the NT was made in Classical Greek.

If you are interested in my studies concerning the New Testament I can translate the Original Greek language that gave rise to it. There is also the Latin Vulgate for the Catholic Church but the Latin was after the original Greek.

I see you have partiality to Aramaic but Aramaic is just a sliver of a sliver in the New Testament.

Tyndale is a modern translation ignoring the original texts. It tries to make Christians just like the Amplified Bible which is also inaccurate.

Respectfully telling you the truth about the New Testament,

John

johnii · 12-12-2013, 02:39 PM

PS. The New American Standard version by the Lockmann Foundation is reasonably accurate. However, The Lockmann Foundation took liberties in translating the New Testament that are incorrect to make Jesus a Diety (I.e in the first chapter of John the Gospel).

Another version came out in the 1970s that is actually quite honorable: The Jewish Bible back then.

Another version from the start was actually very accurate: The King James Version (original not doctored up as it has been lately). Yes the KJ version had inaccurate sentences here and there but for the most part the KJV is really rather remarkable in being true to the dated manuscripts it was translated from.

For instance in the Gospel of John: (KJV) "In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God."

That is accurate. However, in the New American Standard Jesus is inserted as "the word" before he should have been introduced as "the Word." The NAS Bible inserts Jesus ahead of time. It is inaccurate.

NASB: "He was in the beginning with God"

KJV: "The same was in the beginning with God" (I.e. the Word).

The NASB inserts "HE" instead of "the same" was in the beginning with God. The NASB inserts Jesus while the original texts say "the Word" not Jesus, in the opening lines of the original texts from Novum Testamentum Graeke.

Read the NT in the original language of Classic Greek and see how many bibles today are not accurate.

12-08-2013, 11:20 AM	#1
johnii User Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 52 Thanks: 13 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Finding a P-08 Today I remember there was a time when a P-08 was sold as almost junk in the 1960s and then the prices just kept going up with "matching parts" four times above the times they could be had in the 1960's. Now it seems to find a true P-08 has become a hurdle and after that hurdle all the details about parts and date come in to make them all over the board to thousands and thousands of dollars. I have been looking online since 2000 at for sale P-08s from all sorts of places and dates and now I see they all are still rising in cost. It is hard to find a P-08 without spending a lot of money. There have been reproductions of the P-08 from Huston, TX and other places but they always fall way short of the original P-08s made in Germany. Am I correct so far? The question I have is why what was once a surplus cheap item after WWII is now a very expensive buy today and yesterday (yesteryear)? Can a gun company duplicate the machinery and make a P-08 today with the same tolerances? I am wondering and if so can that gun company profit by doing so?

12-08-2013, 11:40 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,974 Thanks: 2,072 Thanked 4,609 Times in 2,123 Posts	no, yes, no, yes It is much more complicated than being said above. In the 1970's Mausers they did remake the luger, it was not a huge success - at the time, too much and probably too many originals out there. Many folks have improved them by make new models, new calibers, etc. The new made ones aren't interchangable in parts They were always more expensive than many other guns years ago, so it depends on what you consider cheap? A $35 luger is cheap, cheap / today - but how much was a person making that a week back then? Mosin Nagants are cheap today and were cheaper five years ago - the import market will dry up with them and their price will rise.... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-08-2013, 10:37 PM	#4
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,925 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,139 Times in 1,520 Posts	People have looked at manufacturing new Lugers to the original specifications and quality. The price would be way over $5000. Mauser tried to do it in the 1970s through 1980s and couldn't make sales at a price that would give a decent profit. That's why they stopped. Other than the ones that Mauser and Krieghoff have made, I don't think there have been any mass manufacture of modern Lugers of good lasting quality. So... we have what were made in the past, and the products of Waffenfabrik Minnesota, etc...(the fakers). They are expensive because of the demand for a limited number of Lugers that are extant. Every collectable Luger that gets damaged reduces the available number, and increases rarity. When you wait for a bus on the corner, you can wave it by because it costs too much (value less than the utility of the trip). Eventually, you either get on the bus, or get cold standing on the corner. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-09-2013, 08:32 PM	#10
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,925 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,139 Times in 1,520 Posts	So... you're in the right place to find a Luger offered directly by a collector for sale. Just keep your eye on the for sale area, and be patient. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-10-2013, 10:18 PM	#16
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,673 Thanks: 3,244 Thanked 2,661 Times in 988 Posts	In 1961 I had just graduated from college ( after 4 years in the Navy). I went to work as a Federal Forester for $4040 per year. That was $336 per month before taxes ,health insurance etc. My take home was around $270 per month. Yes lugers were selling for $60 to $80 but that was a third of my take home pay! So take a third of your present monthly salary and you have a comparison for what you would pay today for a luger. Example you earn $60000 per year or $5000 per month luger sells for $1650. Sure I earned more over the years but lugers prices were also going up. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

12-08-2013, 06:01 PM	#3
MikeP User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ILL Posts: 686 Thanks: 36 Thanked 452 Times in 198 Posts	When Luger were $25 for rig, I was making a buck an hour. True that an "unmessed with" example is a lot harder to find and you need to look very hard at what you do find.

12-09-2013, 04:24 PM	#5
johnii User Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 52 Thanks: 13 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	I was born in 1957 and remember the 1960's and even 1958 and 1959. I was never interested in P-08s although I remember the squirt guns patterned after them filled with water to spray somebody back in 1962. The P-08 was an available squirt gun in 1962 and that was when I first saw a "model" of a P-08 in first grade. In the 60's there was a killer named the Zodiac in the Bay Area and I lived in the Bay Area (Kentfield, CA) when this was happening. He used the P-08 in a town just off Interstate 80 from Black Point to Reno. Then the P-08 was identified as the weapon used by the Zodiac. The P-08 by this time appeared in a lot of WWII movies and also with Frank Sinatra (and others) in the First Deadly Sin and the Manchurian Candidate. I remember these movies as a youngster. Then the P-08 is all over the movies about the Third Reich and WWII. I still had no fascination for the P-08. Until I finally shot one after shooting Hi Powers and CZ 75s and Beretta M-9s. My first two P-08s were DWM commercials and then I got a real P-08 from WWII (the 1937 S/42 Mauser) recovered from a WWII veteran who used it to buy a new roof over his house with a roofer and the roofer walked into my door with it after roofing our house and he wanted to know if I'd buy it and I took it apart seeing all matching except for the magazine and bought it from him for $900. I told him ahead of time he might get more looking elsewhere to sell it but he decided to sell it to me. That is the Story of the 1937 I've pictured here, Serial number 4068 suffix "b". Not reblued all original and it shoots a foot high at 50 yards but other than that it is deadly accurate when you aim low! Then I got the 1936 reblued all original without the Mauser Bump but all matching in steel except for the grips. Matching magazine included. The DWM's I had had mismatched parts and neither one of them shot 100% reliability. These do. I think matching parts make the difference. Whether reblued or not. To date I find a working P-08 hard to find without paying for it. To date I know there are reproductions that cost too much to make to be a real success. I am here to continue the journey to find WWII Military S/42s of other dates with all matching parts. I am not going to do DWM or Erfurt or Swiss or Navy or other. I am concentrating on true WWII Third Reich Soldier P-08s. That is my interest. I suppose that is also my endorsement for anyone finding an S/42 Military Third Reich P-08. I know there are rarities in the Swiss Luger and the Navy and other things but to me I like the S/42 over the rest and I can buy more of them than one rare Navy or Swiss Luger. Does this make sense?

12-09-2013, 06:15 PM	#7
Arizona Slim Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 706 Thanks: 1,026 Thanked 409 Times in 225 Posts	I was speaking with a fellow Luger enthusiast from Florida the other day, a gentleman in his early 80's that I had just made a purchase from on ebay, he told me that his first Luger was an Artillery that he paid a whopping $17.00 for, I didn't get the year he made the purchase but I think it was in the early or middle 50's, anyway it made think I may have overpaid for the 1917 Artillery I bought at auction in early 1964 for the princely sum of $56.00, just kidding. My monthly salary at that time was $350.00. Lon

12-09-2013, 11:12 PM	#11
Lyn Islaub Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 435 Thanks: 3 Thanked 152 Times in 72 Posts	All collectable firearms are getting more expensive than they used to be and we all make more money that we did 40 years ago. I bought a 1942 Remington-Rand 1911 rig a few weeks ago that came with the original NRA paperwork from 1960. Pistol, holster, belt and double magazine pouch was $17.00 back then. Those were the days. Needless to say, the rig was a bit more expensive now.

12-10-2013, 03:05 PM	#13
johnii User Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 52 Thanks: 13 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	It all goes to the value of a P-08 with all matching parts. Were ever it comes from. Mismatches are subject to devaluation and matched numbers mean the real thing. You can get a mismatch P-08 that shoots for a shooter and be happy with it. After all, the tolerances to produce a P-08 are beyond what is manufactured today with CNC or MIM. Ergo the CNC and MIM mean nothing to us. Right? When you get a P-08 with all matching it is a sort of heaven of discovery. I get that. That is the realm I am in and no MIM or CNC will ever match it. I'd rather have mismatch parts from a working P-08 than a recent MIM or CNC reproduction. That's why no recent (after WWII) reproduction is worthless to me. Rebluing? I don't care. All matching parts? I care. Fact is no commercial company after WWII is even close to a mismatched part WWII P-08. I won't buy a mismatched WWII P-08 in the first place and I'll never buy a reproduction made with MIM and CNC. I want matched parts from WWII and I have them in my two P-08s. Reblued or not. The Third Reich had standards that no one today can ever reproduce. They did not have MIM or CNC then. They stamped every single part. The S/42 to me is the true issued mass P-08 for soldiers of the Third Reich. The Navy and Swiss are another realm to admire and spend lots of money for. I'd rather have an issued S/42 than the rest. I am opinionated. I like S/42 Military. I can perhaps look into Swiss and Navy later on but in the meantime I am picking up S/42 issued to the Third Reich. Erfurts? I don't care at this time. I want working functioning P-08s from the Third Reich. All the rest are collector fantasy for the money they pay for it. The S/42 works and most other WWI or other don't work. If they do work they are too expensive to fire repeatedly with the accuracy of the P-08. WWI P-08s have a lot of damage in the bore and in the original parts to fire. They will break in time to be useless to fire or useless to fire because they are so old and cherished by collectors. I want a working gun when I buy a gun. It will not be a safe queen to show others. It will be a firing and functional P-08. My view.

12-10-2013, 09:52 PM	#14
Ajruger User Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Near Memphis TN Posts: 39 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I just have to ask. How can you possibly remember 1958 & 1959 when you were just born in 57? Must have some memory.

12-11-2013, 08:39 PM	#18
GySgt1811 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Southern Indiana Posts: 237 Thanks: 1,238 Thanked 126 Times in 84 Posts	"Yeah I do. I memorized the Gospel of John and Romans and Phillipians and Ephesians and Jude and Revelation and the three John Letters (I,II,III) with Isaiah and Joel and Matthew (Gospel) and Habakkuk and I Corinthians and II Corinthians in 1978 all together." Just curious...which translation; Aramaic, Septuagint or Masoretic Hebrew for the OT; and Koine Greek, Latin Vulgate, or maybe English Tyndal, King James or Douay Confraternity for the NT? I'm partial to the Aramaic text of Isaiah from Q4Isa3. Regards, Gunny John

12-12-2013, 02:39 PM	#20
johnii User Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 52 Thanks: 13 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	PS. The New American Standard version by the Lockmann Foundation is reasonably accurate. However, The Lockmann Foundation took liberties in translating the New Testament that are incorrect to make Jesus a Diety (I.e in the first chapter of John the Gospel). Another version came out in the 1970s that is actually quite honorable: The Jewish Bible back then. Another version from the start was actually very accurate: The King James Version (original not doctored up as it has been lately). Yes the KJ version had inaccurate sentences here and there but for the most part the KJV is really rather remarkable in being true to the dated manuscripts it was translated from. For instance in the Gospel of John: (KJV) "In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God." That is accurate. However, in the New American Standard Jesus is inserted as "the word" before he should have been introduced as "the Word." The NAS Bible inserts Jesus ahead of time. It is inaccurate. NASB: "He was in the beginning with God" KJV: "The same was in the beginning with God" (I.e. the Word). The NASB inserts "HE" instead of "the same" was in the beginning with God. The NASB inserts Jesus while the original texts say "the Word" not Jesus, in the opening lines of the original texts from Novum Testamentum Graeke. Read the NT in the original language of Classic Greek and see how many bibles today are not accurate.