1938 s/42

John17427 · 10-07-2012, 12:51 AM

Hello,

I've been lurking for a short while trying to learn as much as I can about a 1938 S/42 Luger with matching numbers I just acquired. I'm interested in opinions on its value, but I'm more interested in ideas on what I should do to treat the rust patina that covers a good bit of the barrel and grip. I have it in pieces now and internally it looks nearly brand new, and obviously has not been shot very much. All of the internals have very sharp edges and every part I've checked is matching. While the outside of the trigger plate is a matching number, the inside of the trigger plate has a 45 on it. What does this mean?

The person I bought it from told me that it has been in a drawer since he bought it twenty years ago. He purchased it from a pawn shop, but was told by them that it came from a veteran. It has no import marks. Any help is appreciated.

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sheepherder · 10-07-2012, 08:30 AM

Well, just shooting from the hip...

It's a 1938 Mauser [S/42 + Mauser hump] which looks to be in quite good condition...

By 'patina' I assume you mean the blue has oxidized to a brownish color, from exposure to moisture/oils in hands or holster...I like patina...IMHO it shows honest use and age...Cleaning & oiling is good...

Not sure about value; probably in excess of $800+...How much more is best left to the collectors of this niche variation...

alanint · 10-07-2012, 09:18 AM

The "45" in the inside of the sideplate should be one digit off from the beginning of the gun's serial number. Does the serial number degin with "44"? It's hard to tell from your photos.

Also, the gun appears to be heavily oiled, so the finish is hard to determine, but from the rounded surfaces, it appears to have been reblued at some point. Really fine steel wool, ("0000" or finer) and a little oil will help remove surface rust, but as rich states, you are probably seeing undersurface red, which is mornal in salt blueing.

John17427 · 10-07-2012, 11:51 AM

Yes, the grip and much of the barrel show a reddish patina under a bright light.

Unfortunately, I forgot that I had rubbed it with grease the night before I took the pictures so It looks very shiny in the photographs. I'll try to wipe it down and see if I can take more pictures. The serial starts with 45 which is the same as stamped inside the plate. Don't know why I didn't connect the dots, but what you're saying is that they should be one count off of each other correct?

Thanks.

mrerick · 10-07-2012, 12:03 PM

John, welcome to the forum. Congratulations on what looks like it may be a mint Mauser Luger. Generally, with collectable firearms, it's OK to disclose your serial number since the tracking done by forum members is one of the ways we prove provenance of collectable pistols like yours.

Your approach to the pictures was correct. Indirect (shaded) natural lighting outdoors without using a flash. But try to get sharper better lit exposures, and include closeups of the markings. Your full serial number is on the front of the frame above the trigger guard, and includes the suffix letter.

It's a bit difficult to judge the finish and condition of your pistol because of lighting and the camera's pickup characteristice (was this a cellphone camera?).

While generally the inside of the trigger plate is the first two digits of the serial number plus one, during this year the number matched the first two digits of the serial number.

You can dry the oil off the pistol with a soft absorbent cloth and let us get a better look at it. If it's original finish and a very high condition (97% +) is is likely worth closer to $1800+. My guess is that the rounded surfaces Doug mentioned are due to camera focus problems or camera shake. Use a tripod, and the closeup setting of a good digital camera. The self timer eliminates camera shake.

Don't be too worried about removing oxidation unless it's active red rust. As Doug mentioned, careful use of oiled "0000" steel or bronze wool can remove that. Go gently and slowly. It is normal to see a small amount of red oxidation deep in the finish of an older pistol, and it is, in fact, one thing you look for in judging the age of the finish.

Your Luger was originally hot salt blued at the factory. Resist any temptation to "improve" imperfections. The un-altered original finish (as worn through use) is the most highly valued, and historically correct.

Frank · 10-07-2012, 02:04 PM

Hello John, welcome. The trigger plate number on the inside should be the same number as the first two digits of the serial number. This is true for most 1937 and 1938 Lugers. The later Lugers, beginning in 1939 were mostly numbered with the inside plate number one larger than the first two digits of the serial number.

John17427 · 10-07-2012, 06:10 PM

These pictures were taken with a cell phone. I did take some with a digital camera, but they were actually worse than these. I'm going to see if I can get someone who knows what they're doing with a camera to take some.

The serial is 4536c and I've been trying to make out the first waffenamt on the right side of the receiver; the second waffenamt is a 63.

I've been surprised by the number of parts that are numbered.

Thanks for the info. I'm going to work on getting better pictures.

John17427 · 10-07-2012, 07:00 PM

One more try on my own with the camera.

John17427 · 10-07-2012, 07:06 PM

I guess my questions are,

Should I put it back together and leave it alone?

Should I shoot it or not?

Does it look like it's been refinished?

What's it's value?

What is referred to as the Mauser "hump"?

Thanks for the prior replies. I've learned a great deal from all of the posters.

MFC · 10-07-2012, 08:00 PM

Mauser hump...

mrerick · 10-07-2012, 08:18 PM

John, These pictures show more detail, but I'm still having trouble judging the finish. The edges of the metal look sharp (a good sign).

When you re-shoot these, use outdoors natural sunlight in a shaded area. Use a background that is more grey in color (meters are calibrated for 18% reflection) or compensate for the light reflected by the background.

Marc

rolandtg · 10-07-2012, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

John, These pictures show more detail, but I'm still having trouble judging the finish. The edges of the metal look sharp (a good sign). Marc

I agree, it almost looks like it's been dipped in that black Russian stuff.
I think it would help to wipe it down well with a clean rag and take some photos in natural light.

mrerick · 10-08-2012, 12:00 PM

Roland, yes - the matte and speckled appearance of the finish had me thinking the same thing, but I still think it could be the lighting and camera sensor.

John, if you're near another LugerForum member that has experience judging finish, you might try and get a first hand evaluation in person. It makes about a 40-50% difference in the value of the pistol.

As to the provenance (veteran to pawn shop to 20 year owner to you), we have a saying, "Believe the gun not the story"... This is where capture papers and the databases we maintain help.

Marc

John17427 · 10-08-2012, 01:33 PM

Yes, my thought is to try and find someone knowledgeable in the area and get their opinion. There are some collectors at gun shows in New Orleans and Baton Rouge on occasion. I may seek an opinion from them. If there was a forum member in south Louisiana willing to take a look that would certainly be ideal.

I'm fine with whichever way this works out. I just want to treat it in a way appropriate to what it is. I don't want to mishandle it if it's a collector piece, but neither do I want to venerate it if it's not worthy.

Thanks for the help whit this. I appreciate it.

MFC · 10-09-2012, 12:46 AM

Hi John,
Where in Louisiana are you? I'm in Lafayette. There is a gun show here on the 13th and 14th.

John17427 · 10-09-2012, 01:37 AM

I'm in Baton Rouge. Sending you a PM.

John17427 · 10-10-2012, 01:52 AM

This is a 1938 S/42 with a pretty close serial to mine on Simpson's site, though it's in better condition. Very dark blue as well.

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...0871f10966823e

swampsavage · 10-10-2012, 06:01 PM

..the ejector, right side of mag eject, trigger, extractor and safety lever are all strawed. I am not a collector and new here so still learning. Why the difference? BTW, my s/n is 3384 C

John

John17427 · 10-10-2012, 06:22 PM

Savage, I think we're in the same boat. I'm new to Lugers myself. I believe some of the earlier S/42 Lugers had strawed parts, but I don't know exactly when they changed over to all blued. Some of the experts will likely chime in to say in which year and serial block that change took place.

wlyon · 10-10-2012, 08:56 PM

The change from rust bluing to salt bluing was in 1937. Apparently there are some early 1937 S42's that have rust blue and streawed small parts. However I believe all the 1938 lugers were salt blued and no straw.According to Hallock and van de Kants Mauser book all the 1938's were salt blued and therefore no strawed parts. I am sure our Mauser experts will be on here. Bill

10-07-2012, 12:51 AM	#1
John17427 User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Louisiana Posts: 20 Thanks: 4 Thanked 7 Times in 1 Post	1938 s/42 Hello, I've been lurking for a short while trying to learn as much as I can about a 1938 S/42 Luger with matching numbers I just acquired. I'm interested in opinions on its value, but I'm more interested in ideas on what I should do to treat the rust patina that covers a good bit of the barrel and grip. I have it in pieces now and internally it looks nearly brand new, and obviously has not been shot very much. All of the internals have very sharp edges and every part I've checked is matching. While the outside of the trigger plate is a matching number, the inside of the trigger plate has a 45 on it. What does this mean? The person I bought it from told me that it has been in a drawer since he bought it twenty years ago. He purchased it from a pawn shop, but was told by them that it came from a veteran. It has no import marks. Any help is appreciated.

10-07-2012, 08:30 AM	#2
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	Well, just shooting from the hip... It's a 1938 Mauser [S/42 + Mauser hump] which looks to be in quite good condition... By 'patina' I assume you mean the blue has oxidized to a brownish color, from exposure to moisture/oils in hands or holster...I like patina...IMHO it shows honest use and age...Cleaning & oiling is good... Not sure about value; probably in excess of $800+...How much more is best left to the collectors of this niche variation... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

10-07-2012, 09:18 AM	#3
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	The "45" in the inside of the sideplate should be one digit off from the beginning of the gun's serial number. Does the serial number degin with "44"? It's hard to tell from your photos. Also, the gun appears to be heavily oiled, so the finish is hard to determine, but from the rounded surfaces, it appears to have been reblued at some point. Really fine steel wool, ("0000" or finer) and a little oil will help remove surface rust, but as rich states, you are probably seeing undersurface red, which is mornal in salt blueing. Last edited by alanint; 10-07-2012 at 05:20 PM.

10-07-2012, 12:03 PM	#5
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	John, welcome to the forum. Congratulations on what looks like it may be a mint Mauser Luger. Generally, with collectable firearms, it's OK to disclose your serial number since the tracking done by forum members is one of the ways we prove provenance of collectable pistols like yours. Your approach to the pictures was correct. Indirect (shaded) natural lighting outdoors without using a flash. But try to get sharper better lit exposures, and include closeups of the markings. Your full serial number is on the front of the frame above the trigger guard, and includes the suffix letter. It's a bit difficult to judge the finish and condition of your pistol because of lighting and the camera's pickup characteristice (was this a cellphone camera?). While generally the inside of the trigger plate is the first two digits of the serial number plus one, during this year the number matched the first two digits of the serial number. You can dry the oil off the pistol with a soft absorbent cloth and let us get a better look at it. If it's original finish and a very high condition (97% +) is is likely worth closer to $1800+. My guess is that the rounded surfaces Doug mentioned are due to camera focus problems or camera shake. Use a tripod, and the closeup setting of a good digital camera. The self timer eliminates camera shake. Don't be too worried about removing oxidation unless it's active red rust. As Doug mentioned, careful use of oiled "0000" steel or bronze wool can remove that. Go gently and slowly. It is normal to see a small amount of red oxidation deep in the finish of an older pistol, and it is, in fact, one thing you look for in judging the age of the finish. Your Luger was originally hot salt blued at the factory. Resist any temptation to "improve" imperfections. The un-altered original finish (as worn through use) is the most highly valued, and historically correct. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

10-07-2012, 07:00 PM	#8
John17427 User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Louisiana Posts: 20 Thanks: 4 Thanked 7 Times in 1 Post	One more try on my own with the camera. Attached Thumbnails

10-07-2012, 11:51 AM	#4
John17427 User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Louisiana Posts: 20 Thanks: 4 Thanked 7 Times in 1 Post	Yes, the grip and much of the barrel show a reddish patina under a bright light. Unfortunately, I forgot that I had rubbed it with grease the night before I took the pictures so It looks very shiny in the photographs. I'll try to wipe it down and see if I can take more pictures. The serial starts with 45 which is the same as stamped inside the plate. Don't know why I didn't connect the dots, but what you're saying is that they should be one count off of each other correct? Thanks.

10-07-2012, 02:04 PM	#6
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Hello John, welcome. The trigger plate number on the inside should be the same number as the first two digits of the serial number. This is true for most 1937 and 1938 Lugers. The later Lugers, beginning in 1939 were mostly numbered with the inside plate number one larger than the first two digits of the serial number.

10-07-2012, 06:10 PM	#7
John17427 User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Louisiana Posts: 20 Thanks: 4 Thanked 7 Times in 1 Post	These pictures were taken with a cell phone. I did take some with a digital camera, but they were actually worse than these. I'm going to see if I can get someone who knows what they're doing with a camera to take some. The serial is 4536c and I've been trying to make out the first waffenamt on the right side of the receiver; the second waffenamt is a 63. I've been surprised by the number of parts that are numbered. Thanks for the info. I'm going to work on getting better pictures.

10-07-2012, 07:06 PM	#9
John17427 User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Louisiana Posts: 20 Thanks: 4 Thanked 7 Times in 1 Post	I guess my questions are, Should I put it back together and leave it alone? Should I shoot it or not? Does it look like it's been refinished? What's it's value? What is referred to as the Mauser "hump"? Thanks for the prior replies. I've learned a great deal from all of the posters. Attached Thumbnails

10-07-2012, 08:00 PM	#10
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Mauser hump... Attached Images __________________ Mike C.

10-07-2012, 08:18 PM	#11
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	John, These pictures show more detail, but I'm still having trouble judging the finish. The edges of the metal look sharp (a good sign). When you re-shoot these, use outdoors natural sunlight in a shaded area. Use a background that is more grey in color (meters are calibrated for 18% reflection) or compensate for the light reflected by the background. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

10-08-2012, 12:00 PM	#13
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Roland, yes - the matte and speckled appearance of the finish had me thinking the same thing, but I still think it could be the lighting and camera sensor. John, if you're near another LugerForum member that has experience judging finish, you might try and get a first hand evaluation in person. It makes about a 40-50% difference in the value of the pistol. As to the provenance (veteran to pawn shop to 20 year owner to you), we have a saying, "Believe the gun not the story"... This is where capture papers and the databases we maintain help. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

10-08-2012, 01:33 PM	#14
John17427 User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Louisiana Posts: 20 Thanks: 4 Thanked 7 Times in 1 Post	Yes, my thought is to try and find someone knowledgeable in the area and get their opinion. There are some collectors at gun shows in New Orleans and Baton Rouge on occasion. I may seek an opinion from them. If there was a forum member in south Louisiana willing to take a look that would certainly be ideal. I'm fine with whichever way this works out. I just want to treat it in a way appropriate to what it is. I don't want to mishandle it if it's a collector piece, but neither do I want to venerate it if it's not worthy. Thanks for the help whit this. I appreciate it.

10-09-2012, 12:46 AM	#15
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Hi John, Where in Louisiana are you? I'm in Lafayette. There is a gun show here on the 13th and 14th. __________________ Mike C.

10-09-2012, 01:37 AM	#16
John17427 User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Louisiana Posts: 20 Thanks: 4 Thanked 7 Times in 1 Post	I'm in Baton Rouge. Sending you a PM.

10-10-2012, 01:52 AM	#17
John17427 User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Louisiana Posts: 20 Thanks: 4 Thanked 7 Times in 1 Post	This is a 1938 S/42 with a pretty close serial to mine on Simpson's site, though it's in better condition. Very dark blue as well. http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...0871f10966823e

10-10-2012, 06:01 PM	#18
swampsavage User Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Jackson County, GA Posts: 43 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My 1938 S/42 is different... ..the ejector, right side of mag eject, trigger, extractor and safety lever are all strawed. I am not a collector and new here so still learning. Why the difference? BTW, my s/n is 3384 C John

10-10-2012, 06:22 PM	#19
John17427 User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Louisiana Posts: 20 Thanks: 4 Thanked 7 Times in 1 Post	Savage, I think we're in the same boat. I'm new to Lugers myself. I believe some of the earlier S/42 Lugers had strawed parts, but I don't know exactly when they changed over to all blued. Some of the experts will likely chime in to say in which year and serial block that change took place.

10-10-2012, 08:56 PM	#20
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,633 Thanks: 3,173 Thanked 2,555 Times in 954 Posts	The change from rust bluing to salt bluing was in 1937. Apparently there are some early 1937 S42's that have rust blue and streawed small parts. However I believe all the 1938 lugers were salt blued and no straw.According to Hallock and van de Kants Mauser book all the 1938's were salt blued and therefore no strawed parts. I am sure our Mauser experts will be on here. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon