HELP!!! Luger restoration (should I say THEFT)

alte-elfer · 11-16-2011, 04:44 AM

I have Luger's with Lugerman.com as seen on Gunbroker...guy in PA.....he's had for a year and now am worried I may never see them again. Any advise from anyone? I just spoke to his local police and am in contact with my attorney and about to reach out to the ATF. Thoughts anyone? He has several of my guns of major value. My case is clear cut and well documented (police are ready to make a visit)...but I'd love to know if anyone else had this happen to them and how it turned out. Otherwise, I'm going full-bore on this one.

alanint · 11-16-2011, 06:19 AM

Do a search on this site for "Lugerman". You will find that you are one of many who is in this situation with him. Although his work can be excellent he is not fast and he is not responsive.
The best thing I can suggest is to keep the pressure on. You will eventually get your gun back, whether restored or not. "Thor" who frequents this site, is a better craftman, in my opinion, and will have the ethics to tell you how long the work will take, (he is backed up at the moment).

Good Luck!!

sheepherder · 11-16-2011, 06:31 AM

His name is Eugene Golubtsov; here's a pretty representative thread on how he operates...

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=21822

Edward Tinker · 11-16-2011, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alte-elfer

I have Luger's with Lugerman.com as seen on Gunbroker...guy in PA.....he's had for a year and now am worried I may never see them again. Any advise from anyone? I just spoke to his local police and am in contact with my attorney and about to reach out to the ATF. Thoughts anyone? He has several of my guns of major value. My case is clear cut and well documented (police are ready to make a visit)...but I'd love to know if anyone else had this happen to them and how it turned out. Otherwise, I'm going full-bore on this one.

I think we aren't hearing the whole story?

You have sent him previous correspondence? Requests for your guns back?

Unfortunately, a year is not a unbelievable time for 'several' guns to be restored (why do you have several being restored at once)?

Not trying to defend him, but you are making pretty strong comments on the forum, and didn't even leave your name....

alte-elfer · 11-16-2011, 10:23 AM

Thanks guys for your reply. They've comforted me a little bit. Seems I may get them after all. I have left strong comments here as I am a business man who does things ethically and keeps promises - I expect the same. I handed over a few pistols as I was told, "give me work for more than one and I'll get them done faster"..If he said a year, OK, but I was promise 3-4 months. Moreover, my parts were near mint. They largely needed only assembly and perhaps reblue (yes, full blue to restore) but none had any pitting whatsoever. When you get lot's of "the dog ate my lunch" excuses, no status on your items and continue to see adds posted on GB for the same service, one starts to feel they're getting taken. I've seen too many bad comments on him, and now I want to find someone who actually had experience with him. Thankfully, the authorities are ready to jump given my documentation....at least they don't give excuses these days. I am weighing my options and was hoping for input. Thanks for your thoughts guys.

hgreer2 · 11-16-2011, 10:31 AM

Next time use Charles Danner.

Harry

alte-elfer · 11-16-2011, 10:29 AM

Thanks for that link BTW! Gives some good guidance. I ran into a few of these types who restore cars....I wish I saw these links before hand. Problem is, his website looks so good and feedback on GB is 100% (of course, because you only get 3 months to post feedback).

DavidJayUden · 11-16-2011, 10:32 AM

He did one for me a few years ago. And yes, Eugene has his own idea of time and commitments, but I did eventually get my stuff and he did a good job. He can be maddening to deal with, but for me, at least, he did eventually come thru. It may help to huff and puff a bit.
dju

alte-elfer · 11-16-2011, 11:46 AM

again guys - thank you....you are helping me temper my timing and approach with the local law enforcement and my attorney (who keeps telling me - "5 years for this amount of theft")...I wake up at night thinking my rare parts are going into someone else's project or getting mixed up and sold. Never again. That's for sure.

lugerholsterrepair · 11-16-2011, 01:23 PM

Eugene is buying himself some reputation that's for sure..

markbritt · 11-22-2011, 08:57 AM

I think that these posts should be forwarded to Gunbroker so they prevent him from listing his services.

Mark

alte-elfer · 11-22-2011, 10:53 AM

That's on my list of action items for sure. The fact he states "3 to 4 months" to perform restoration seems to match well to the fact that you can't leave feedback that late post an auction. I work with some of the heaviest hitters in the legal world and plan to leverage those contacts when all this is done.

DavidJayUden · 11-22-2011, 11:14 AM

Why not take a deep breath until you get your stuff back before making plans to "big time" him?
dju

alte-elfer · 11-22-2011, 11:23 AM

I've taken a lot of deep breaths and now I am getting serious. Wars are won on the planning table. Better to prepare carefully and make all required plans so that, when one hit's the beaches and gets bogged down, one can call in all resources so that your objectives are accomplished. No reason to play footsie at this stage.

LugerMan.com · 02-09-2012, 03:13 PM

HI,
I decided to join the forum, so i can answer the questions first hand. And hopefully get better visibility of good vs bad.

It looks to me that a bad/slow response times and turnaround been slow, floats to the top of this forum. But all the good about the work done, never makes it here. Because when all is good , no one feels a need to share.

Yes I do the restoration part time , only 15-20 hours a week, yes i have a year long waiting list.

As far as gun-broker goes i ask people bid and post feedback after the projects are done, not before. So that 3 month is not an issue.

To every one who is not willing to wait, i can return there guns, no questions asked

But, i restore about 100 guns a year , give or take. and i have been doing it for 7-8 years. so that makes about 700-800 lugers and broomhandle overall.

And i only have seen 3-4 bad posts on this forum, and they are all... "He is slow and does not answer calls" posts.

Well guess what, if i answer calls, then it's time to DO restorations cuts down in about 1/2 ...

It comes down to simple math, the more you call, the more you have to wait...

And all and all statistically 700 restorations and 4 bad posts, I think i do OK.

So please for all the customers that did like the work i have done.. please post good responses ....

And for the frustrated ones, after the long waits... finish your posts and report on the final product.

On my side i promise that i will try to estimate any of my future projects with more accuracy, but been one man show it's next to impossible.

Thanks for reading,

Eugene Golubtsov at LugerMan.com

lugerholsterrepair · 02-09-2012, 03:41 PM

Eugene, Welcome to the Forum. I am happy to see you here addressing a very serious issue. I think you will benefit from an open discussion of the problems listed above.

"Well guess what, if i answer calls, then it's time to DO restorations cuts down in about 1/2 ... "

Here's my guess..thinking this way has caused you real problems..I find that the better the communication... the less difficulties arise. You can sooth disgruntled customers with a simple Email or short phone conversation . Ignoring calls insures that you will be spending MUCH more time cleaning up the mess and perhaps dealing with Police, lawyers or other authorities.
Answering questions is part of doing business. You have to answer the phone to GET business don't you? Why not follow up to KEEP business...

LugerMan.com · 02-09-2012, 04:19 PM

You make very compelling argument,

But because i am doing this part time, even on my site I listed time to contact by phone from 6PM-8 PM
and my voice msg is asking to email for any questions.

I treat my new clients same as my current clients.

But i do hear your point loud and clear and trying to dedicate more time to respond to questions... it changes on Day to Day basses...

You know what they say.. you want see God smile... tell him about your plans.

One man show depend on circumstances.. far more then i'd like

Thanks for welcoming me to the forum.

Kitkat041836 · 02-09-2012, 04:49 PM

Now I would like to hear from Ted Green and hear what he has to say?
Thanks George

LugerMan.com · 02-09-2012, 05:03 PM

This post was about me been unresponsive... and i answered it...
I think to get Ted's attention you have to ask him the questions directly...

As if he is anything like me ( or better them me ) as some say...
He is busy working on the projects...

Take it easy on us restorers...

We are a rear breed and need to be take care off,
If we are under stress.. then we loose desire to restore ...

and then collectors will have no one to complain about and no one to turn to for help...

alanint · 02-09-2012, 05:17 PM

Hi Eugene,
Welcome to the Luger Site! I think you have taken a huge first step in addressing any issues out there by stepping up and communicating.
As someone who runs a business that provides both goods and service to the public, I know how important it is to maintain some sort of contact with customers. I agree that a little effort on the front end will save you loads of grief at the end of the day. It isn't always easy to deal with the public, but its part of the gig if you plan to provide a service for any length of time.

11-16-2011, 04:44 AM	#1
alte-elfer User Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	HELP!!! Luger restoration (should I say THEFT) I have Luger's with Lugerman.com as seen on Gunbroker...guy in PA.....he's had for a year and now am worried I may never see them again. Any advise from anyone? I just spoke to his local police and am in contact with my attorney and about to reach out to the ATF. Thoughts anyone? He has several of my guns of major value. My case is clear cut and well documented (police are ready to make a visit)...but I'd love to know if anyone else had this happen to them and how it turned out. Otherwise, I'm going full-bore on this one.

11-16-2011, 06:31 AM	#3
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,197 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	His name is Eugene Golubtsov; here's a pretty representative thread on how he operates... http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=21822 __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

11-16-2011, 01:23 PM	#10
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Eugene is buying himself some reputation that's for sure.. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

02-09-2012, 03:13 PM	#15
LugerMan.com User Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 377 Thanks: 91 Thanked 364 Times in 116 Posts	slow response times HI, I decided to join the forum, so i can answer the questions first hand. And hopefully get better visibility of good vs bad. It looks to me that a bad/slow response times and turnaround been slow, floats to the top of this forum. But all the good about the work done, never makes it here. Because when all is good , no one feels a need to share. Yes I do the restoration part time , only 15-20 hours a week, yes i have a year long waiting list. As far as gun-broker goes i ask people bid and post feedback after the projects are done, not before. So that 3 month is not an issue. To every one who is not willing to wait, i can return there guns, no questions asked But, i restore about 100 guns a year , give or take. and i have been doing it for 7-8 years. so that makes about 700-800 lugers and broomhandle overall. And i only have seen 3-4 bad posts on this forum, and they are all... "He is slow and does not answer calls" posts. Well guess what, if i answer calls, then it's time to DO restorations cuts down in about 1/2 ... It comes down to simple math, the more you call, the more you have to wait... And all and all statistically 700 restorations and 4 bad posts, I think i do OK. So please for all the customers that did like the work i have done.. please post good responses .... And for the frustrated ones, after the long waits... finish your posts and report on the final product. On my side i promise that i will try to estimate any of my future projects with more accuracy, but been one man show it's next to impossible. Thanks for reading, Eugene Golubtsov at LugerMan.com

02-09-2012, 03:41 PM	#16
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Eugene, Welcome to the Forum. I am happy to see you here addressing a very serious issue. I think you will benefit from an open discussion of the problems listed above. "Well guess what, if i answer calls, then it's time to DO restorations cuts down in about 1/2 ... " Here's my guess..thinking this way has caused you real problems..I find that the better the communication... the less difficulties arise. You can sooth disgruntled customers with a simple Email or short phone conversation . Ignoring calls insures that you will be spending MUCH more time cleaning up the mess and perhaps dealing with Police, lawyers or other authorities. Answering questions is part of doing business. You have to answer the phone to GET business don't you? Why not follow up to KEEP business... __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

11-16-2011, 06:19 AM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Do a search on this site for "Lugerman". You will find that you are one of many who is in this situation with him. Although his work can be excellent he is not fast and he is not responsive. The best thing I can suggest is to keep the pressure on. You will eventually get your gun back, whether restored or not. "Thor" who frequents this site, is a better craftman, in my opinion, and will have the ethics to tell you how long the work will take, (he is backed up at the moment). Good Luck!!

11-16-2011, 10:23 AM	#5
alte-elfer User Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks guys for your reply. They've comforted me a little bit. Seems I may get them after all. I have left strong comments here as I am a business man who does things ethically and keeps promises - I expect the same. I handed over a few pistols as I was told, "give me work for more than one and I'll get them done faster"..If he said a year, OK, but I was promise 3-4 months. Moreover, my parts were near mint. They largely needed only assembly and perhaps reblue (yes, full blue to restore) but none had any pitting whatsoever. When you get lot's of "the dog ate my lunch" excuses, no status on your items and continue to see adds posted on GB for the same service, one starts to feel they're getting taken. I've seen too many bad comments on him, and now I want to find someone who actually had experience with him. Thankfully, the authorities are ready to jump given my documentation....at least they don't give excuses these days. I am weighing my options and was hoping for input. Thanks for your thoughts guys.

11-16-2011, 10:31 AM	#6
hgreer2 Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 309 Thanks: 1 Thanked 29 Times in 20 Posts	Next time use Charles Danner. Harry

11-16-2011, 10:29 AM	#7
alte-elfer User Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks for that link BTW! Gives some good guidance. I ran into a few of these types who restore cars....I wish I saw these links before hand. Problem is, his website looks so good and feedback on GB is 100% (of course, because you only get 3 months to post feedback).

11-16-2011, 10:32 AM	#8
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	He did one for me a few years ago. And yes, Eugene has his own idea of time and commitments, but I did eventually get my stuff and he did a good job. He can be maddening to deal with, but for me, at least, he did eventually come thru. It may help to huff and puff a bit. dju

11-16-2011, 11:46 AM	#9
alte-elfer User Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	again guys - thank you....you are helping me temper my timing and approach with the local law enforcement and my attorney (who keeps telling me - "5 years for this amount of theft")...I wake up at night thinking my rare parts are going into someone else's project or getting mixed up and sold. Never again. That's for sure.

11-22-2011, 08:57 AM	#11
markbritt User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: NW Indiana Posts: 240 Thanks: 5 Thanked 48 Times in 22 Posts	I think that these posts should be forwarded to Gunbroker so they prevent him from listing his services. Mark

11-22-2011, 10:53 AM	#12
alte-elfer User Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	That's on my list of action items for sure. The fact he states "3 to 4 months" to perform restoration seems to match well to the fact that you can't leave feedback that late post an auction. I work with some of the heaviest hitters in the legal world and plan to leverage those contacts when all this is done.

11-22-2011, 11:14 AM	#13
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Why not take a deep breath until you get your stuff back before making plans to "big time" him? dju

11-22-2011, 11:23 AM	#14
alte-elfer User Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I've taken a lot of deep breaths and now I am getting serious. Wars are won on the planning table. Better to prepare carefully and make all required plans so that, when one hit's the beaches and gets bogged down, one can call in all resources so that your objectives are accomplished. No reason to play footsie at this stage.

02-09-2012, 04:19 PM	#17
LugerMan.com User Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 377 Thanks: 91 Thanked 364 Times in 116 Posts	answering the phone calls You make very compelling argument, But because i am doing this part time, even on my site I listed time to contact by phone from 6PM-8 PM and my voice msg is asking to email for any questions. I treat my new clients same as my current clients. But i do hear your point loud and clear and trying to dedicate more time to respond to questions... it changes on Day to Day basses... You know what they say.. you want see God smile... tell him about your plans. One man show depend on circumstances.. far more then i'd like Thanks for welcoming me to the forum.

02-09-2012, 04:49 PM	#18
Kitkat041836 RIP Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 195 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts	Now I would like to hear from Ted Green and hear what he has to say? Thanks George

02-09-2012, 05:03 PM	#19
LugerMan.com User Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 377 Thanks: 91 Thanked 364 Times in 116 Posts	Ted .... This post was about me been unresponsive... and i answered it... I think to get Ted's attention you have to ask him the questions directly... As if he is anything like me ( or better them me ) as some say... He is busy working on the projects... Take it easy on us restorers... We are a rear breed and need to be take care off, If we are under stress.. then we loose desire to restore ... and then collectors will have no one to complain about and no one to turn to for help...

02-09-2012, 05:17 PM	#20
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Hi Eugene, Welcome to the Luger Site! I think you have taken a huge first step in addressing any issues out there by stepping up and communicating. As someone who runs a business that provides both goods and service to the public, I know how important it is to maintain some sort of contact with customers. I agree that a little effort on the front end will save you loads of grief at the end of the day. It isn't always easy to deal with the public, but its part of the gig if you plan to provide a service for any length of time.