Magazine damage from Walther safeties

[Don M]

From a recent thread on Jan Still's forum (http://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=26965), I learned that at least one of the reasons the Walther magazine safety was abandoned by the German police was that it caused unacceptable wear on magazines. While this may have been known by other collectors and researchers, it was news to me.

The provenance of this information is very credible and I have no reason to doubt its accuracy; however, it would be interesting to identify some evidence supporting it.

It seems to me that there should be some examples of this type of damage on some of the many police magazines out there. These probably would be magazines that were used with Walther safeties for only a short time before the safeties were deactivated or removed and sustained only minor damage. I have checked my meager collection of police mags and have not found such damage; however, some of you have much more extensive collections.

I request that readers check any police mags they own for such damage. The black mark in the photo below shows the approximate area where I believe the damage may be found. It may be in the form of scratches or a groove in the body or perhaps a bending of the lip. Photos of any candidates would be most helpful.

Thanks for considering this request.

[Patronen]

Don, I have only 2 Police mags. One of them shows no wear at all and then this one pictured here that is serial numbered with no suffix and number 1 stamped on it. Third Reich Lugers puts it at the same type issued with Military Code Lugers. -Dave

[sheepherder]

There are several threads going on at Jan Still's Forum about the Walther Sicherung [magazine safety] with many good points and much information & pics of this questionable modification...

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...ewpost&t=27033

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...ewpost&t=26965

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...ewpost&t=27053

[Don M]

Originally Posted by Patronen

Don, I have only 2 Police mags. One of them shows no wear at all and then this one pictured here that is serial numbered with no suffix and number 1 stamped on it. Third Reich Lugers puts it at the same type issued with Military Code Lugers. -Dave

Dave, it does look like the scuffing could have been from a Walther safety; however, if the magazine was not produced until after 1937, it seems unlikely that it would have been used with a Walther safety. In any event, the wear seems very minor. Thanks for the photos.

[Patronen]

Don, My curiosity lead me to a popular auction site and I found myself looking at pictures of Luger magazines for sale narrowing it down to Police mags and from what I could see from photos of the magazines in that area of those I looked at I only noticed 1 magazine that had any kind of wear in that area and it appeared minimal. -Dave

[Don M]

Dave, this is very helpful information. Thanks very much.

[Patronen]

Don, Today I took it further and went to various web sites to browse and look specifically at Luger police magazines that are for sale and found in all that I looked at,1 or 2 had anykind of wear in the area in question and it was minimal. There were no line gouges, no bends, no cracks in the metal just minor surface rubs. Also, I have been following the threads on Jan's site and the results of Mr. Van De Kant's experiment in insertion and removal of the magazines in a Luger with the intact safety puts me onboard with those that believe this wasn't the reason for the discontinue of the safetys usage. -Dave

[Don M]

Originally Posted by Patronen

Also, I have been following the threads on Jan's site and the results of Mr. Van De Kant's experiment in insertion and removal of the magazines in a Luger with the intact safety puts me onboard with those that believe this wasn't the reason for the discontinue of the safetys usage. -Dave

It's certainly beginning to look that way. Thanks for all of your research.

[Neil Young]

Don:
My police magazine is an E/46 and it has absolutely no marks in the subject area.

Neil

[alanint]

I've always felt that a gun which will not fire with the magazine removed has a major tactical disadvantage. I also think that magazine safeties adversely affect trigger feel and pull.
It is rare to find a Browning high power with a magazine safety intact for these very reasons.

[Don M]

While it has been less than a week since I started this thread on this and two other forums, I believe enough information has been generated to strongly suggest that magazine damage was not a reason for abandonment of the Walther safety by the German police in 1937. Searching for damaged magazines was something of a long shot in the first place and not surprisingly did not produce any examples of significant damage that may have been caused by a Walther safety. However, the expeirment conducted by Joop van de Kant was, in my opinion, very convincing. He inserted and removed two magazines (nickel plated and blued) 100 times each in a P08 with an intact Walther safety and observed absolutely no wear or damage on either. It is clear that they may have been cycled several hundred times without causing damage. His results are reported in post # 19 in http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...t=27033&page=2.

Thanks to all and especially Joop for helping clear up this issue.