Magazine maintenance...

[PRD1]

Since my initial posting a couple of days ago, asking about a rear sight dilemma, was so successfully resolved by forum members, I feel encouraged to bring up another topic: Luger magazine maintenance.
I have several original Luger magazines in need of attention; a couple of wood-base types and a WW2 aluminum-base, plus a couple of total wrecks. The first three need nothing more than complete cleaning to be returned to service, while the other two might be salvaged for interior parts.
What has always amazed me, considering how dependent Lugers are on perfect magazine function, is that the designers apparently didn't feel it necessary to make magazine disassembly for cleaning, etc., any easier than it seems to be.
So far as I am aware, there is on other way to completely disassemble the Luger magazine than by driving out the base plug pin and removing the parts through the magazine bottom. Then, it appears that the thumbpiece is attached to the follower by rivetting the end of the pin, and, when removed, is not easily reinstalled so as to stay put.
If any of you know anything that would help clarify my understanding of the problem, or suggestions that might make the job of disassembly and reassembly easier and avoid trouble, I'd be obliged for the information.
PRD1 - mhb - Mike

[Frank]

GT is the guy that will answer your questions. He is a winner!!

Gerry Tomek
G.T. Specialties
316 W Straford Dr.
Chandler, AZ 85225
480-632-6565

[PRD1]

Thank you!
I understood from various postings on the forums that Gerry makes a business of repairing/restoring Luger magazines, whereas I am looking for guidance and advice on what the typical owner can do to maintain his magazines in the best condition. I would hesitate to contact anyone in business and ask him to tell me everything he knows...
PRD1 - mhb - Mike

[G.T.]

Thanks Frank, & hi Mike! Luger magazines are like a can of worms... Once opened, it alway takes a bigger can to hold them again! Disassembly isn't to hard, most of the time, but reassembly can be your worst nightmare... and the parts are fragile .. So proceed with slow and deliberate steps.. or, you might end up with little or nothing .. That being said, here we go...
1) You are correct, the only way to repair a P.08 mag is thru the bottom.. But to clean, you can use both light gun oil, and compressed air to acheive satisfactory results with out ever dissambling the mag ... ONLY take it apart for repair of a fit or function issue...
2) If we are going to take it apart, make sure it is well supported and carefully drive the pin out into a a predetermined relief area on your support plate, Gently pull the bottom out of the shell keeping in mind that some residual drill hole flashing may remain from when it was originally made. Just use gentle force, and maybe you'll get lucky... But this flashing will have to be removed prior to reassembly.
3) Inspect the tube for setback dents, and shell spreading both at the top feed lip area and bottom area where the mag bottom sits.. If these areas seem symetrical, then check the over all width (front spine to back spine) target dimension 1.100" + or - .002" ..a gentle squeeze with a LARGE padded jaw slip-joint pliers will shrink this to the correct dimension, be careful though, as to much squish will defeat the seams and then you have nothing! .. A special mandrel for inside the tube helps alot!
4) Of course this whole tune up operation is a lot easier with the follower removed... and this is another area that luger mag repair goes to H### in a heartbeat! The only way to remove this part with out damage is to have a fixture plate with the proper reliefs for the follower button and support for the mag shell. you then have to sandwich the mag shell with strips of spring steel, (inside and out, under the fol. button head area) to keep the follower from denting the shell while trying to tap the follower button free with a small dia., short tipped punch thru the access hole... Done with that?? On we go..
5) Follower spring (and spring cap) is probably the most important part you can replace. Original springs, although great when new, are now probably more of the major cause of mag malfunction then all others put together. Use, time, modification and abuse takes it's toll on them.. Lugerdoc on the forum here has the best available, this is where you should start.. (should have made it step 1 huh?? )
6) Bottom repair, you may have to shim the bottom to make it fit tight in the shell, (I use aluminum tape) or install a new bottom... This require drilling a new hole, a # 40 wire gauge drill bit will work great... drilling straight thru is a crap shoot... If you don't totally ruin your P.08 mag trying to get the follower button out, then you'll get another excellent chance here.. ... Luger mag repair is not for the faint of heart... But, I really do wish you the best of Luck. Lugerdoc has all the parts needed ... Best to all, til...lat'r...GT

[lugerholsterrepair]

The above is why I send ALL my problem mags to GT. He's reasonable, fast, effecient and has made every mag I have ever sent him sooooo much better!

By the way... I ruined several myself doing just what he warns about in his posting above.

Luger magazines were made as virtual throwaways and are more delicate than you think.

If you don't need GT now...you will.

Thanks Gerald!

Jerry Burney

[G.T.]

Hi Mike!!! Too late! You got most of what I know.... ....forgot the rest... .... True, I am in the business, but I offset that drawback with being probably the worst business man living... and I don't see any change in the near future... I have no problem sharing info that may keep you outt'a trouble on your mags... as I have done continuously with most all the members on this forum at one time or another... If you want me to work on them, that ain't too expensive either... Best to you, til...lat'r...GT ....

[PRD1]

Thank you both for what is undoubtedly good advice and an excellent tutorial!
All of the steps outlined in the procedure for disassembly and cleaning of the Luger magazine seem sound and well-described - and I have the means and materials to do all that G.T. listed. The only step I still have a question about is the re-installation of the follower button so as to stay put, as it is rivetted into the follower (I think), and there may not be enough material left on the end of the stud to re-rivet it soundly on re-installation.
The 3 magazines I want to clean up are externally undamaged, but full of corruption, dead grease, and the like. The possibility of spraying solvent into the magazine to remove as much of the loose and soluble crud had occured to me, but seemed to be a bad idea for the wooden-based mags, and total disassembly seems to be the only way to deal with any internal rust on the walls of the magazine or the follower.
An any case, I am gratified by the spirit of camaraderie and willingness to share information evident among the denizens of the Luger Forum.
I participate in a number of other fora, but being a fairly unsophisticated Luger owner, felt the need of some guidance, which has been freely given.
My own areas of interest are primarily U.S. breechloading military arms, and American single shot rifles, with an occasional flyer on just about anything ever made which goes 'bang!'. I have considerable experience as a barrel maker and custom rifle smith, as well as general gunsmithing, machining and toolmaking, and have always been happy to share whatever I know with anyone who has a genuine interest.
Your assistance is appreciated!
PRD1 - mhb - Mike

[G.T.]

Hi Mike, You'll certainly learn a lot during your quest, but I'm a lot the same... I also like to get a complete understanding of the task at hand... If you are successful at removing the follower button, there WILL be enough of the riveted end left to re-install... the trick to that... is to use aluminum for the anvil part, (to rest the follower button checkered head against), and tape some support spacers along the shell to raise it up just a wee little bit as to allow the follower to float in the tube... Then set the follower on the follower shaft by tapping on the follower itself thru the relief hole first, then set the rivet end with a #2 Stanley nail set, (if short) or a small flat punch (if long or irregular shaped??) One smart shot usually tightens it for life! Let us know how it turns out for you! best to you, and good Luck! til...lat'r.....GT

[G.T.]

Hi to all, this might be a good time to let the member know that when sending me a mag to repair, I usually charge a $35.00 bench fee for each mag. for all necessary repairs less parts, which are extra... If a new wood bottom needs to be installed, then it's $50.00 for all including return postage... Kind'a like tossing in the labor...I repair everything thats within my ability range, and always strive to return a far better mag then started with! I really want to see the members get their monies worth! I've never yet repaired one in under one hour! And, most take me an avarage of 3 or 4 hours ...unless I screw up!, then it's all weekend...... That being said, I really appreciate the support and business that the forum members have afforded me! I've had lot'sa mags sent in for repair recently, and have been at it pretty steady... Thanks to all who have sent me work, and the kind words of support that have followed! Best to all, til...lat'r....GT

[Ron Wood]

Love ya man! You are definitly one of the good guys. No one needs to worry that they are not going to get the best work that is available. There are very few Old World quality craftsmen involved in our hobby, and you and Jerry Burney are at the top of the heap. Thanks to both of you for upholding the standards.
Ron

[PRD1]

Thank you again!
I think that answers all my questions in full.
The process sounds like quite an adventure - I don't think all your customers can fully appreciate what a bargain they are getting in your service.
I will let you all know how my attempts turn out: it's quite possible I may have to holler for your help, yet! I can't ever say I wasn't properly warned.....
I think I'll try the aluminum-based mag first...
Further bulletins to follow.
PRD1 - mhb - Mike

[Sieger]

Hi:

Here is how I maintain my magazines.

Grab a tooth brush and a can of WD-40.

With the magazine held in the downward position, with the spring fully compressed, spray the WD-40 all through the inside of the magazine tube. With the spring still compressed, tooth brush out the inside of the magazine tube. Repeat the WD-40 spray to clear out any loosened materials from inside the magazine tube. Repeat this process until the inside of the tube is clean and cleared.

This is a simple, but effective procedure.

Sieger.

[PRD1]

Thanks for the tip!
I've never been a fan of WD40 too liberally applied - if allowed to build-up over time, it can make the darndest varnish you've ever seen. I do use it as a solvent, and sometimes in a VERY light coating for rust prevention in the short term, but am careful to dry it off and out of any mechanism.
The problems I have been interested in resolving are those found in magazines which have been neglected for decades: they become full of dried oil, grease, powder residue, dust, etc., which accumulate in the magazine tube and on all the internal parts as well - while a basically clean magazine can be maintained without complete disassembly, it seems to me that only drastic cleaning can remove the accumulated gunk of ages.
And most military pistol magazines seem to be designed to permit more-or-less complete disassembly for cleaning without the difficulties caused by the Luger magazine's construction.
I guess it is just something we'll have to put up with - and keep our magazines as clean as possible by regular maintenance, thus avoiding the necessity to take them completely apart very often.
PRD1 - mhb - Mike

[G.T.]

Hi Mike, Seiger has the right idea, WD (water displacement 40) is a pretty good effort for anything you want to temporally clean... although, if I was really serious about cleaning a mag, original or not, I'd hit it with some break clean, and oil it afterwards.. I've probable cut apart 100 bottoms... and very few have been oil soaked to a point to where they were saturated... and those still had plenty of integrity left... They will stand a lot of cleaning... and to be truthful... oil just makes'em look better... Best to you, til....lat'r...GT

[tharpo]

I don't know how other forum members hold down the mag button to compress the spring but I have found these plastic speedloaders can come in handy. They are cheap and make it a lot easier on your thumb!
http://www.bosesguns.com/product_p/hkspo-8.htm

Tom

[Thor]

And remember WD-40 will deactivate ammo if left on loaded rounds.

[usmodel1873]

Originally Posted by tharpo

I don't know how other forum members hold down the mag button to compress the spring but I have found these plastic speedloaders can come in handy. They are cheap and make it a lot easier on your thumb!
http://www.bosesguns.com/product_p/hkspo-8.htm

Tom

This would be super handy. Which one works with the standard Luger magazine? Does the one listed for the P08 22 Long Rifle work?

Thanks,
David

[Lugerdoc]

GT, Thanks for the tutorial & referal. I do have a good stock of all of your parts available for the "do it yourselfer". I also use your mandrel & mag disassembly block ocassionally, but had been just resting the checkered area of new follower buttons on my wood bench and wacking the other end with my center punch to reinstall in the follower. I now know the error of my ways. Better yet, in the future, I'll let you do the job. TH

[lugerholsterrepair]

Don't forget about mineral spirits. Commonly known as paint thinner. It's cheap and I reuse it. Once the particulates settle out just pour it off. Good for cleaning guns too.

[PRD1]

I did the dirty (apt choice of words) deed, and disassembled, cleaned and re-assembled one of each type magazine - wood-base and aluminum base.
I started with the wood-base magazine: it was not difficult to drive out the pin holding the base plug in the magazine, and the plug came out without much difficulty. The spring and its aluminum contact piece/plunger came out easily enough. By great good luck (?), the follower fingerpiece was already loose, and could be removed by simply pushing it out of the follower with a punch, ane the follower then came out the bottom of the magazine. The amount of crud was amazing - the follower was completely packed with something that more closely resembled mud dauber nest than any form of grease, and took a lot of work with WD-40 (as a solvent) and small picks to get it out. The follower was scrubbed outside with a stainless steel brush, to remove the varnish and rust. The spring and its cap required the same sort of treatment to remove the dried oil and grease, but were in good condition otherwise. The base plug was O.K., and was just wiped down with an old towel. The interior of the magazine needed scrubbing with a bronze brush and WD-40, and quite a lot of effort. The outside of the magazine was gone-over with the stainless brush - the mag body was not dented or deformed, so needed no special attention. The mag finger piece got the brush, too. With all the parts clean, I blew the WD-40 out of and off all parts, and used a cleaning patch on a pistol rod to lightly lubricate the interior of the mag with Break Free - the other parts got the same on a small brush. Reassembly was not too bad, but I deviated in a couple of spots from G.T.'s recommended methods: In re-attaching the fingerpiece to the follower, I did not use a hammer and punches, but supported the head of the finger piece on a lead block, and staked the end of the shaft with a Brown and Sharpe automatic center punch, which is easier to manage, and strikes a precise blow exactly where you want it - two hits rivetted the shaft firmly in the follower. Then, when re-pinning the base plug to the mag body, I found it all but impossible to get the original pin to line-up with whichever hole was opposite to the side I started the pin from, though I did run a #40 drill through the plug and both sides of the mag (by hand, with the drill in a Jacobs chuck), to make sure the pin could pass through unimpeded - in the end, I just made a new pin from spring-tempered wire stock, which I could guide through the magazine by holding the full-length wire (about 8"); then, with the off-side of the pin flush with the exterior of the magazine, I carefully cut off the long end and dressed the stub neatly with die sinker's files, avoiding damage to the mag body.
The aluminum-based mag was easier, in some respects, being less dirty in the first place, and the grunge not having quite turned to stone. It, too was in pretty good external condition, without dings, burrs, deformation, etc. The base plug pin drove out easily, but the plug was 'glued-in' by dried oil, and had to be persuaded to come out by clamping the plug ears in the soft (plastic) jaws of the bench vise and tugging carefully on the magazine body. The spring and its plunger, as it turned out, were in upside-down, with the plunger stuck in the baseplug. Then, examination of the follower and fingerpiece showed that the shaft of the fingerpiece had been badly mashed-over to one side when rivetted previously, and would have been a wooly bear to remove, so I didn't, in fact, take the follower out of the magazine. Instead, the follower was subjected to brake cleaner while still in the mag body, then pipe cleaners were used to rub the gunk off the follower sides. The interior of the magazine was brushed out from both top and bottom in the same way as the older magazine, but with the follower pushed as far as possible toward bottom and top, respectively. Then, the brake cleaner was used again, and the mag blown dry and clean with compressed air. The exterior of the mag was brushed with the stainless brush, and the baseplug with a brass brush. Lubrication was done in the same way as the older mag, with Break Free. In re-assembly, the spring and plunger were installed right-side-up. The aluminum base plug did not give any problems in re-installing the pin.
Both magazines now load smoothly, and fit properly in the pistol - but I won't know whether they will function well until I can try them by shooting. And, as soon as I get my new toggle and rear sight from Lugerdoc, I'll do just that, and report on the whole affair.
Thanks again to all who advised on this project!
PRD1 - mhb - Mike