American Eagle Stolen in 1962.

CavScoutEurope · 01-28-2011, 05:09 PM

Hello evryone! I'm a realativly new member here and the proud owner of a 1916 DWM. My grandfather wanted me to post this information on here to see if anyone has found one of his Lugers that was stolen from his house hold goods back in 1962. It's an American Eagle Luger, serial number 5300. If anyone has any information on it I would be forever greatful if you would let me know. He actually had three Lugers stolen at that time, one of which was a Mauser made Luger that was captured in North Africa! I think that my grandfather would like to buy the American Eagle back if you have it. Thank you!

Hugo Borchardt · 01-28-2011, 05:17 PM

Hey. Ron Wood and Dwight Gruber track these guns. #5300 is not listed in Dwight Grubers database. Perhaps Ron Wood?

If I owned it, I would sadly but gladly return it to your family. Sorry for the loss of what surely is/was a fine early serial #'d 1900 American Eagle. I hope you find it someday.

Clark

CavScoutEurope · 01-28-2011, 05:41 PM

I got the serial number wrong! It's SN # 53000. I don’t think that I would accept it back without giving some sort of payment to whoever bought it not knowing it was stolen. What really bums me out is that it was stolen with two other Lugers, one of which was captured in North Africa!

aptech77 · 01-28-2011, 05:47 PM

good luck

Norme · 01-28-2011, 06:55 PM

I hope that Dwight and Ron flag this gun as stolen on their A.E. lists, who knows, it may show up years from now. I have one stolen Navy flagged on the Navy List, which I maintain. Regards, Norm.

hgreer2 · 01-28-2011, 08:09 PM

I hate thieves in the worst way................

Harry

mrerick · 01-28-2011, 08:17 PM

Cav Scout,

I am also sorry for your loss.

I know that it happened back in 1962, but it would also help if you could provide Police Department contact information and a reference to the details of the police report that accompanied this theft.

If this information is not available, it's hard to determine the details of the theft. You can imagine the issues that will arise without this information should the Luger ever surface.

- - - - -

On a related topic, I buy used Police cars. About a year ago, a gold high school class ring dropped out of the back of the front passenger seat! By tracing back the name of the High School and the engraving within the ring, I was able to return it to the rightful owner. It had been stolen in a home invasion burglary, and the perp was arrested. The police report helped locate the owner!

Marc

CavScoutEurope · 01-31-2011, 05:23 AM

My Grandfather said that he reported the three stolen to the Washington D.C. Police back in the 60's and that when he called them a couple of years ago to check on it's status he was told that reports going back that far had been transfered to the Arlington, VA Police department.

Edward Tinker · 01-31-2011, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CavScoutEurope

My Grandfather said that he reported the three stolen to the Washington D.C. Police back in the 60's and that when he called them a couple of years ago to check on it's status he was told that reports going back that far had been transfered to the Arlington, VA Police department.

Totally understand why you would want it back. That said, it has been 48 years (I know that because I was born in 1960

).

So, no offense, but you need good provenance that it is yours. A 1906 AE is worth from $1200-$3000 all depending on condition.

A lot of people could have owned it through the years, all legally buying and selling it. If it is not in the police database (NICS if I remember right), and after so many years, I believe they are purged, but even if not, then NICS was probably not even in existence. Then it could legally have been sold many times the last 25-30 years and not come up as stolen...

Ed

Ron Wood · 01-28-2011, 10:11 PM

AE serial number 53000 is on Dwight's list, but with no further information.

alanint · 01-31-2011, 09:14 AM

Whether right or wrong, that's why so many people blank out serial numbers in their photos. To avoid claims, spurrious or not, about their guns.

John Sabato · 01-31-2011, 02:38 PM

I agree but

Quote:

claims, spurrious or not

...still have to provide documentation to prove ownership at a specific point in time... dated registration documents, bring back papers, bills of sale documents, shipping documents, etc...

Douglas Jr. · 02-01-2011, 07:11 AM

Well, he's not claiming the restitution of the gun without the payment of its value to the current owner - who can not be forced into any business. As far as I understood, he is trying to buy it back.

Good luck with your hunting.

Douglas

tudorbug · 02-01-2011, 12:07 PM

A police report of the theft detailing the specifics of the luger would be very pertinent, I would think.

David

alanint · 02-01-2011, 01:06 PM

Essential, actually.
I could pull out old receipts proving I owned a gun back in 1980 or whenever and claim it was stolen from me if I saw it re emerge. People tend to forget that thousands of guns were sold face to face at shows or between neighbors, etc. with no paper trail. New laws have made this more difficult but it still occurs in the more rural states and it is legal.
A police report would be your only recourse in a case like this.

CavScoutEurope · 02-01-2011, 04:44 PM

I just spoke with my grandfather (he's in Alabama and I'm in Germany) and I think he would also like to trace the gun back to whoever stole it if there is a paper trail. He also said that he purchased the AE Luger at "Bob's Pawn Shop" in Norfolk, VA in 1956. I don’t know if the place is there anymore not to even get into if they kept their sales records from back then.

Let me also make it clear that I'm not doing this to get a probably very valuable Luger for myself, I put out this post because my grandfather wanted me to.

alanint · 02-01-2011, 05:11 PM

You have every right to legitimately try to find a stolen firearm, regardless of its value. I know that the knowledge that something I owned was out on the street would bother me, even if I protected myself with a stolen goods report.

I had a slotted German occupation Browning HP stolen out of the gun shop it was consigned to! They realized it when I asked why it was no longer on display and they could not find a sales record. I gave them an hour to find it. When that time was up they asked me to be patient and give them a couple of days to ask employees who were not on duty then about the gun....NO WAY!
I called the police right then from my cell and had them do a stolen property report on the spot. The gun shop was angry, but who cares? The gun never did turn up.

A police report of the incident which would clinch your case would be ideal. I would contact the DC police and see if you can get copies of the records.

cirelaw · 02-02-2011, 08:54 AM

Its something like a pawn shop. If an item is found to be stolen, it can be confiscated by this authorities from whom ever, whether the rightful owner is known commonly called 'escheat'It is traced back to England's Common Law. Every shire or county had a reeve appointed by the king to collect taxes, or reclaim the king propery whose known as a Shire Reeve', today as our 'Sheriff".

Dwight Gruber · 02-06-2011, 02:04 PM

This serial number came to me from Dave Sorocco's original database. Date of entry and source are unknown.

--Dwight

cirelaw · 02-06-2011, 02:22 PM

Seriously Check out the local pawn shops even if they mearly saw it. Its worked before!!

01-28-2011, 05:09 PM	#1
CavScoutEurope User Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 86 Thanks: 102 Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts	American Eagle Stolen in 1962. Hello evryone! I'm a realativly new member here and the proud owner of a 1916 DWM. My grandfather wanted me to post this information on here to see if anyone has found one of his Lugers that was stolen from his house hold goods back in 1962. It's an American Eagle Luger, serial number 5300. If anyone has any information on it I would be forever greatful if you would let me know. He actually had three Lugers stolen at that time, one of which was a Mauser made Luger that was captured in North Africa! I think that my grandfather would like to buy the American Eagle back if you have it. Thank you!

01-28-2011, 05:17 PM	#2
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 370 Thanks: 338 Thanked 131 Times in 47 Posts	Hey. Ron Wood and Dwight Gruber track these guns. #5300 is not listed in Dwight Grubers database. Perhaps Ron Wood? If I owned it, I would sadly but gladly return it to your family. Sorry for the loss of what surely is/was a fine early serial #'d 1900 American Eagle. I hope you find it someday. Clark __________________ My militaria collection is dedicated to the memory of my Grandfather, Marine Gunnery Sergeant Dave Hill, Jr., wounded in action at The Assault of the Second Marine Division on Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, 20-23 November, 1943. http://www.tarawa1943.com/pages/casualties%20tarawa.htm

01-28-2011, 05:41 PM	#3
CavScoutEurope User Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 86 Thanks: 102 Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts	opps! I got the serial number wrong! It's SN # 53000. I don’t think that I would accept it back without giving some sort of payment to whoever bought it not knowing it was stolen. What really bums me out is that it was stolen with two other Lugers, one of which was captured in North Africa!

01-28-2011, 08:17 PM	#7
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Cav Scout, I am also sorry for your loss. I know that it happened back in 1962, but it would also help if you could provide Police Department contact information and a reference to the details of the police report that accompanied this theft. If this information is not available, it's hard to determine the details of the theft. You can imagine the issues that will arise without this information should the Luger ever surface. - - - - - On a related topic, I buy used Police cars. About a year ago, a gold high school class ring dropped out of the back of the front passenger seat! By tracing back the name of the High School and the engraving within the ring, I was able to return it to the rightful owner. It had been stolen in a home invasion burglary, and the perp was arrested. The police report helped locate the owner! Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

01-28-2011, 10:11 PM	#10
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	AE serial number 53000 is on Dwight's list, but with no further information. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-28-2011, 05:47 PM	#4
aptech77 User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Illinois Posts: 85 Thanks: 10 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	good luck

01-28-2011, 06:55 PM	#5
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,415 Thanks: 225 Thanked 2,593 Times in 931 Posts	I hope that Dwight and Ron flag this gun as stolen on their A.E. lists, who knows, it may show up years from now. I have one stolen Navy flagged on the Navy List, which I maintain. Regards, Norm.

01-28-2011, 08:09 PM	#6
hgreer2 Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 309 Thanks: 1 Thanked 29 Times in 20 Posts	I hate thieves in the worst way................ Harry

01-31-2011, 05:23 AM	#8
CavScoutEurope User Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 86 Thanks: 102 Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts	My Grandfather said that he reported the three stolen to the Washington D.C. Police back in the 60's and that when he called them a couple of years ago to check on it's status he was told that reports going back that far had been transfered to the Arlington, VA Police department.

01-31-2011, 09:14 AM	#11
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Whether right or wrong, that's why so many people blank out serial numbers in their photos. To avoid claims, spurrious or not, about their guns.

02-01-2011, 07:11 AM	#13
Douglas Jr. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: South America Posts: 948 Thanks: 598 Thanked 584 Times in 254 Posts	Well, he's not claiming the restitution of the gun without the payment of its value to the current owner - who can not be forced into any business. As far as I understood, he is trying to buy it back. Good luck with your hunting. Douglas

02-01-2011, 12:07 PM	#14
tudorbug Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 387 Thanks: 0 Thanked 40 Times in 29 Posts	A police report of the theft detailing the specifics of the luger would be very pertinent, I would think. David

02-01-2011, 01:06 PM	#15
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Essential, actually. I could pull out old receipts proving I owned a gun back in 1980 or whenever and claim it was stolen from me if I saw it re emerge. People tend to forget that thousands of guns were sold face to face at shows or between neighbors, etc. with no paper trail. New laws have made this more difficult but it still occurs in the more rural states and it is legal. A police report would be your only recourse in a case like this.

02-01-2011, 04:44 PM	#16
CavScoutEurope User Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 86 Thanks: 102 Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts	I just spoke with my grandfather (he's in Alabama and I'm in Germany) and I think he would also like to trace the gun back to whoever stole it if there is a paper trail. He also said that he purchased the AE Luger at "Bob's Pawn Shop" in Norfolk, VA in 1956. I don’t know if the place is there anymore not to even get into if they kept their sales records from back then. Let me also make it clear that I'm not doing this to get a probably very valuable Luger for myself, I put out this post because my grandfather wanted me to.

02-01-2011, 05:11 PM	#17
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	You have every right to legitimately try to find a stolen firearm, regardless of its value. I know that the knowledge that something I owned was out on the street would bother me, even if I protected myself with a stolen goods report. I had a slotted German occupation Browning HP stolen out of the gun shop it was consigned to! They realized it when I asked why it was no longer on display and they could not find a sales record. I gave them an hour to find it. When that time was up they asked me to be patient and give them a couple of days to ask employees who were not on duty then about the gun....NO WAY! I called the police right then from my cell and had them do a stolen property report on the spot. The gun shop was angry, but who cares? The gun never did turn up. A police report of the incident which would clinch your case would be ideal. I would contact the DC police and see if you can get copies of the records. Last edited by alanint; 02-02-2011 at 09:05 AM.

02-02-2011, 08:54 AM	#18
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Its something like a pawn shop. If an item is found to be stolen, it can be confiscated by this authorities from whom ever, whether the rightful owner is known commonly called 'escheat'It is traced back to England's Common Law. Every shire or county had a reeve appointed by the king to collect taxes, or reclaim the king propery whose known as a Shire Reeve', today as our 'Sheriff". Attached Images

02-06-2011, 02:04 PM	#19
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	This serial number came to me from Dave Sorocco's original database. Date of entry and source are unknown. --Dwight

02-06-2011, 02:22 PM	#20
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Seriously Check out the local pawn shops even if they mearly saw it. Its worked before!!