Need ID help

B40 · 09-24-2010, 08:59 AM

Ran across a Luger being sold as a "Black Widow". No picture, unfortunately, but all parts are blue-black, grips are checkered walnut marked "655" inside and are slightly oversized on the front, chamber marked "41", toggle "42", barleycorn front sight. Can anyone help me determine what this all says?

Steinar · 09-24-2010, 10:01 AM

I would stay away from it..
Don't get me wrong, a chamber marked 41(year) with 42 code (Mauser) is a pretty rare find. It's just that "black widow" phrase that indicates a seller more interested in making $ rather than to give a good honest description.

John Sabato · 09-24-2010, 10:07 AM

Take Steinar's caution to heart... he speaks wise words here... but pursue the advertised Luger intelligently and dilligently... the seller may not really know what he or she has, and if the price is right, it could be sitting in your gun safe instead of his.

Get good clear photographs, and post them here for advice and appraisal of true value. If the seller is not willing to give you such photographs or allow you to take them, then "be afraid, be very afraid" ...it is probably a scam... or worse yet, stolen.

tau-delt · 09-24-2010, 10:25 AM

FWIW the so called "Black Widow" indicates black bakelite grips and mag bottom.

B40 · 09-24-2010, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B40

Ran across a Luger being sold as a "Black Widow". No picture, unfortunately, but all parts are blue-black, grips are checkered walnut marked "655" inside and are slightly oversized on the front, chamber marked "41", toggle "42", barleycorn front sight. Can anyone help me determine what this all says?

Thanks, Gents. What flummoxed me was the wood grips and the "Black Widow" description, which I thought meant black plastic grips.

Also the "655" inspector mark on the inside of the slightly oversized grips - did inspectors typically mark grips and does this number resonate with anyone? I did see from "The Luger Story" that John Walter thought that only 7000 of the 41/42 were produced. The gun is purportedly in very good condition, fully matched including magazine, and has SN 6XXo.

I suppose that the gun could have been called Black Widow by mistake, and is in reality a 41/42.......or it could be some kind of mismatch. I'll get to see it next week. Is there anything particular I should be looking for?

tharpo · 09-24-2010, 01:02 PM

A 41-42 in good condition with a matching magazine would be a great find. Just be very careful it has not been messed with. Wood grips would not fit the description of a "black widow".

tau-delt · 09-24-2010, 01:09 PM

Belated Welcome to the forum........ Grips during that period can have the last 2 numbers of the serial number or the E/655 stamp or sometimes both.

Make sure all numbers are matching. Check for any signs of refinishing. The condition of the bore should more or less be in the same general condition as the gun. A gun with a really nice outside should have a good bore. A nasty barrel would not be expected.........

Good luck.....

DavidJayUden · 09-24-2010, 03:54 PM

I would not be afraid of it so long as the price is attractive. If they want $3k for a "black widow" then yes, run, don't walk away. But if is in the $1000 Luger range I have heard nothing to cause huge concern. So far.
I was of the impression that wooden grips were ofter appropriate for that vintage of gun, but of course do not add to the Black Widow BS.
As previously stated, photos and close description please.
dju

B40 · 09-25-2010, 06:51 AM

Thanks, all, for your insights. I'll follow through and should know a lot more when I actually see it.

B40 · 10-09-2010, 10:23 AM

The gun had replacement grips, but otherwise was in good original condition. It sold at auction for $2540 earlier this week.

sheepherder · 10-09-2010, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B40

The gun had replacement grips, but otherwise was in good original condition. It sold at auction for $2540 earlier this week.

Can you post the link??? I'm sure we'd all like to pick it apart...

B40 · 10-10-2010, 06:00 PM

Link is www.jamesdjulia.com
Go to the October firearms auction, you will have to register
Go to session 1
Gun is Lot 1084

It'll be interesting to get your comments.

sheepherder · 10-10-2010, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B40

Link is www.jamesdjulia.com
Go to the October firearms auction, you will have to register
Go to session 1
Gun is Lot 1084

It'll be interesting to get your comments.

I doubt that anyone is interested in *my* comments, but here's what i found -

1084 $2,530.00

REVISED: 9/27/2010 ~ ADDITIONAL INFORMATION: Grips are replaced.

*42 CODE (MAUSER) BLACK WIDOW LUGER SEMI-AUTO PISTOL. SN 690o. Cal. 9 mm. All blue/black finish with 4" tapered rnd bbl, barleycorn front sight with chamber marked "41" and the toggle with the Mauser code "42". Mounted with full checkered walnut grips that have eagle "655" inspector stamps on inside. Accompanied by one orig matching numbered aluminum base magazine. CONDITION: Extremely fine plus, all matching including magazine. Overall retains virtually all of its orig blue/black factory finish with only faint sharp edge wear and some minor rubs on top rail of receiver from the toggle link and side of receiver from the sideplate. Sideplate has light high point wear. Grips are crisp and very slightly oversized on front edges but appear orig to this pistol. Magazine is equally new. Crisp mechanics, brilliant shiny bore. 4-40586 JR67 (1,500-2,500)

It doesn't say if it sold or not...???...and only one pic (below)...

Others must judge; I am only an egg...

09-24-2010, 08:59 AM	#1
B40 User Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 10 Thanks: 6 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Need ID help Ran across a Luger being sold as a "Black Widow". No picture, unfortunately, but all parts are blue-black, grips are checkered walnut marked "655" inside and are slightly oversized on the front, chamber marked "41", toggle "42", barleycorn front sight. Can anyone help me determine what this all says?

09-24-2010, 10:01 AM	#2
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	I would stay away from it.. Don't get me wrong, a chamber marked 41(year) with 42 code (Mauser) is a pretty rare find. It's just that "black widow" phrase that indicates a seller more interested in making $ rather than to give a good honest description. __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

09-24-2010, 10:07 AM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,098 Posts	Take Steinar's caution to heart... he speaks wise words here... but pursue the advertised Luger intelligently and dilligently... the seller may not really know what he or she has, and if the price is right, it could be sitting in your gun safe instead of his. Get good clear photographs, and post them here for advice and appraisal of true value. If the seller is not willing to give you such photographs or allow you to take them, then "be afraid, be very afraid" ...it is probably a scam... or worse yet, stolen. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-24-2010, 10:25 AM	#4
tau-delt User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 106 Thanks: 0 Thanked 11 Times in 7 Posts	FWIW the so called "Black Widow" indicates black bakelite grips and mag bottom. __________________ dave

09-24-2010, 01:09 PM	#7
tau-delt User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 106 Thanks: 0 Thanked 11 Times in 7 Posts	Belated Welcome to the forum........ Grips during that period can have the last 2 numbers of the serial number or the E/655 stamp or sometimes both. Make sure all numbers are matching. Check for any signs of refinishing. The condition of the bore should more or less be in the same general condition as the gun. A gun with a really nice outside should have a good bore. A nasty barrel would not be expected......... Good luck..... __________________ dave

09-24-2010, 01:02 PM	#6
tharpo Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: West Coast, USA Posts: 544 Thanks: 118 Thanked 383 Times in 158 Posts	A 41-42 in good condition with a matching magazine would be a great find. Just be very careful it has not been messed with. Wood grips would not fit the description of a "black widow".

09-24-2010, 03:54 PM	#8
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I would not be afraid of it so long as the price is attractive. If they want $3k for a "black widow" then yes, run, don't walk away. But if is in the $1000 Luger range I have heard nothing to cause huge concern. So far. I was of the impression that wooden grips were ofter appropriate for that vintage of gun, but of course do not add to the Black Widow BS. As previously stated, photos and close description please. dju

09-25-2010, 06:51 AM	#9
B40 User Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 10 Thanks: 6 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks, all, for your insights. I'll follow through and should know a lot more when I actually see it.

10-09-2010, 10:23 AM	#10
B40 User Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 10 Thanks: 6 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The gun had replacement grips, but otherwise was in good original condition. It sold at auction for $2540 earlier this week.

10-10-2010, 06:00 PM	#12
B40 User Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 10 Thanks: 6 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Link is www.jamesdjulia.com Go to the October firearms auction, you will have to register Go to session 1 Gun is Lot 1084 It'll be interesting to get your comments.