Having to consider selling family heirloom - looking for estimates of value

maduro_fan · 08-14-2010, 09:23 PM

Financial situation is forcing me to consider selling a family heirloom. My grandfather brought this Luger back from WWII. I believe it's an S/42 model as that's on top of the bolt (?). There's a G stamped on the top of the receiver just before the barrel. All numbers match on all parts - 6564 on the magazines and 64's on the smaller parts on the gun. Bore is in pretty good shape with some pitting - I tried to take a good picture of the bore but it's tough. Some of the bluing is worn off due to holster wear especially on the sides of the front of the barrel. The holster is stamped with 1917 in the top flap and it's in good shape except that the front sight of the gun has worn through the leather. You can see full high resolution pictures here: http://www.motosportsdesign.com/stevest/Luger - just click on any individual picture for a blow up. I can provide other pictures if necessary. I'd appreciate an idea of what I could ask for it. I may list it for sale here as well.

FNorm · 08-14-2010, 09:52 PM

Welcome, Steve,

You have a G date. The 'secret code' for 1935. Generally scarce but not rare. About 54,000 made. But there are variations on the proof marks, found on the rt. side of the receiver that could increase its value. Hard to describe, but think of a football goal post on it's side with letters and numbers inside. Then later came what we call E/63, Eagle 63.

What is the full serial number found on the front of the frame, under the barrel. There may be a script letter there too, like d or an f. Also what is stamped on the tool?

Matching magazines increase the value too!

FN

maduro_fan · 08-14-2010, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FNorm

What is the full serial number found on the front of the frame, under the barrel. There may be a script letter there too, like d or an f. Also what is stamped on the tool?

Matching magazines increase the value too!

FN

It is 6564 d . You can see the marking on the tool in this pic: http://www.motosportsdesign.com/stev...s/IMGP1427.htm .

LugerVern · 08-14-2010, 10:00 PM

Very nice gun!

Not my area of collecting, but I am sure you will get several replies shortly.

Please look at the guns at this link, this place is high retail but they have similar guns like yours. You can expect 70% to 80%
of their listed value.

I suggest posting the gun here in the for sale section. You have a real collectors item, please do your research before you sale.

http://www.simpsonltd.com

Good luck! I hope you end up keeping the gun in your family, you will be glad you did.

Vern

FNorm · 08-14-2010, 10:07 PM

PS: Ah! OK, I looked at more of your pix. Ser. no 6564d. That would be sub variation 2, about 20,000 made. But I just can't make out the proof marks mentioned above.

Is it E/63, S-92?

FN

maduro_fan · 08-14-2010, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FNorm

PS: Ah! OK, I looked at more of your pix. Ser. no 6564d. That would be sub variation 2, about 20,000 made. But I just can't make out the proof marks mentioned above.

Is it E/63, S-92?

FN

There are three proof marks there. One is definitely an S-92, to the left of that there's another that looks like an bird with what looks like a 63 underneath it (or maybe 03). To the right of the S-92 is another one that is hard to describe - you might be able to make it out here: http://www.motosportsdesign.com/stev...s/IMGP1430.htm .

mrerick · 08-14-2010, 10:10 PM

Vern, looks like the s/n is 6564d.

Edward Tinker · 08-14-2010, 10:55 PM

Welcome to the forum.

Posting pictures here is highly recommended, and then if you want to add a link to hi-rez photo's thats fine.

Experience has shown that after folks get their info, they delete the pictures from photobucket, etc and then the thread as a learning tool is lost for later learners.

Ed

EricW · 08-15-2010, 01:21 AM

Steve,

The DE63 S-92 is the 5'th of 6 variations of the G Date Luger...
http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=22680

This could be a desirable variation based on the numbers produced, and it looks like you have 2 matching mags which is very desirable. I'm no expert, but, IF everything is correct with the gun and mags, I would think maybe $3000 and up? What say the experts?

maduro_fan · 08-15-2010, 01:47 AM

Thanks for the info so far all. I'll take some more photos of the proof marks. etc tomorrow when the lighting is better. I'll also post them straight to here so there will be a record going forward Edward. I should have additional proof pics posted by 2 eastern. I did check out that site given above and I didn't see any like guns with 2 matching mags, tool, holster, etc. Is there such a thing as a matching holster? If so, how do I tell? It looks like I will be putting it up for sale once I'm able to determine a value. Should I look into a professional appraisal? If so, who? I'm in central Michigan btw.

guns3545 · 08-15-2010, 09:41 AM

First of all, I'm sorry that you find yourself in a situation whereby you have to sell a family heirloom.

On the other hand, if, indeed your rig hold up to inspection and further scrutiny, it is among the most valuable of the G-date variations. As previously mentioned by others, it is the fifth variation of six and was only produced in the d-block fairly late in the cycle of G-dates in 1935. About 2500 were produced making it one of the more scarce variations. The second most scarce in fact.

Now to the average Luger collector, this would not mean much. But to an avid collector who appreciates the subtlety of acceptance marks and the transitions that took place in the d-block, the gun has additional value.

An appraisal by itself does not gain much for you. You need to expose the rig to those who can appreciate its worth. This has a cost associated with it so whatever you do to "market" the rig, be sure to focus on the net proceeds to yourself not the gross proceeds that may be realized in an auction or sale through a dealer.

Hope this helps,

John

PS: Pictures of the back of the holster will tell a lot about its "matching" or not. Just FYI, a lot of 1935 guns were not issued with 1935 holsters

JR

mrerick · 08-15-2010, 10:35 AM

Steve, please see the PM (personal message) I sent.

Marc

maduro_fan · 08-15-2010, 01:39 PM

mrerick - responded to your PM.

more pictures coming up

maduro_fan · 08-15-2010, 01:50 PM

Thanks for the help thus far. Now that I know better what I'm looking for I've posted a bunch more pics on the site at http://www.motosportsdesign.com/stevest/Luger - you can click on any individual picture for a 12mp high res shot if you want to look at more detail all of the pictures below are there as well in higher res. I'm just copying them here as well so there's an ongoing record here as requested above. Hopefully this greater detail will help in determining a value for the gun. I'd greatly appreciate your guys help with figuring out a fair value for the gun as this will help me to put a dark time in my families life behind us - and I'm sure that's what my grandfather would want me to do (as much as I hate to do it). I plan on offering it for sale here to you guys first, because of the wealth of information I'm getting from you I think it's only fair to offer it up here first and I want to price it fairly.

I've taken pictures off all of the parts I could find with serial numbers and any proof marks that I could find. I'll post a few photos below with details in the posts. I'm only putting the ones with proofs here. If you look at the site linked above you'll see all the photos with the serial numbered parts - all are numbers matching.

maduro_fan · 08-15-2010, 01:58 PM

First some shots of the gun itself and the entire set

maduro_fan · 08-15-2010, 02:09 PM

Here are the proof marks on the right side of the frame and barrel and also the serial number markings on the front of the receiver

maduro_fan · 08-15-2010, 02:10 PM

Here are the proof marks that are under the receiver/barrel and also on the underside of the rear of the receiver & bolt

maduro_fan · 08-15-2010, 02:15 PM

Here are the markings on the mags and on the tool. One of the mags has a + on it that's not on the other one. Both of them have an eagle with the 63 under it just like on the frame that may be hard to see on this picture. Both mags work perfect.

maduro_fan · 08-15-2010, 02:17 PM

Lastly here are photos of the holster - the back side as requested and a better shot of the stamp inside the flap. I've also put a photo of the only issue I see with the holster - where the front sight has worn through the holster.

guns3545 · 08-15-2010, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maduro_fan

Lastly here are photos of the holster - the back side as requested and a better shot of the stamp inside the flap. I've also put a photo of the only issue I see with the holster - where the front sight has worn through the holster.

Thanks for the photos. Okay, the holster is not a contemporary to the gun. Somehow, the holster, gun with the two matching magazines and the tool got together.

Not good news but not terribly bad.

BTW, can you take a photo of the proofs on the magazines. The two shots you provided show the SN and the + mark but shots of the acceptance proof are really useful.

John

08-14-2010, 09:23 PM	#1
maduro_fan User Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 19 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Having to consider selling family heirloom - looking for estimates of value Financial situation is forcing me to consider selling a family heirloom. My grandfather brought this Luger back from WWII. I believe it's an S/42 model as that's on top of the bolt (?). There's a G stamped on the top of the receiver just before the barrel. All numbers match on all parts - 6564 on the magazines and 64's on the smaller parts on the gun. Bore is in pretty good shape with some pitting - I tried to take a good picture of the bore but it's tough. Some of the bluing is worn off due to holster wear especially on the sides of the front of the barrel. The holster is stamped with 1917 in the top flap and it's in good shape except that the front sight of the gun has worn through the leather. You can see full high resolution pictures here: http://www.motosportsdesign.com/stevest/Luger - just click on any individual picture for a blow up. I can provide other pictures if necessary. I'd appreciate an idea of what I could ask for it. I may list it for sale here as well.

08-14-2010, 09:52 PM	#2
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Welcome, Steve, You have a G date. The 'secret code' for 1935. Generally scarce but not rare. About 54,000 made. But there are variations on the proof marks, found on the rt. side of the receiver that could increase its value. Hard to describe, but think of a football goal post on it's side with letters and numbers inside. Then later came what we call E/63, Eagle 63. What is the full serial number found on the front of the frame, under the barrel. There may be a script letter there too, like d or an f. Also what is stamped on the tool? Matching magazines increase the value too! FN Last edited by FNorm; 08-14-2010 at 09:53 PM. Reason: sp

08-14-2010, 10:07 PM	#5
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	PS: Ah! OK, I looked at more of your pix. Ser. no 6564d. That would be sub variation 2, about 20,000 made. But I just can't make out the proof marks mentioned above. Is it E/63, S-92? FN Last edited by FNorm; 08-14-2010 at 10:08 PM. Reason: sp

08-14-2010, 10:10 PM	#7
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Vern, looks like the s/n is 6564d. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

08-14-2010, 10:55 PM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Welcome to the forum. Posting pictures here is highly recommended, and then if you want to add a link to hi-rez photo's thats fine. Experience has shown that after folks get their info, they delete the pictures from photobucket, etc and then the thread as a learning tool is lost for later learners. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-14-2010, 10:00 PM	#4
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	Very nice gun! Not my area of collecting, but I am sure you will get several replies shortly. Please look at the guns at this link, this place is high retail but they have similar guns like yours. You can expect 70% to 80% of their listed value. I suggest posting the gun here in the for sale section. You have a real collectors item, please do your research before you sale. http://www.simpsonltd.com Good luck! I hope you end up keeping the gun in your family, you will be glad you did. Vern

08-15-2010, 01:21 AM	#9
EricW User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: CA, USA Posts: 62 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Steve, The DE63 S-92 is the 5'th of 6 variations of the G Date Luger... http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=22680 This could be a desirable variation based on the numbers produced, and it looks like you have 2 matching mags which is very desirable. I'm no expert, but, IF everything is correct with the gun and mags, I would think maybe $3000 and up? What say the experts? __________________ I'm looking for a D suffix DE154 G Date mag. The closer to #457d the better PM me if you have one you are willing to sell, trade, or if you have a lead

08-15-2010, 01:47 AM	#10
maduro_fan User Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 19 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the info so far all. I'll take some more photos of the proof marks. etc tomorrow when the lighting is better. I'll also post them straight to here so there will be a record going forward Edward. I should have additional proof pics posted by 2 eastern. I did check out that site given above and I didn't see any like guns with 2 matching mags, tool, holster, etc. Is there such a thing as a matching holster? If so, how do I tell? It looks like I will be putting it up for sale once I'm able to determine a value. Should I look into a professional appraisal? If so, who? I'm in central Michigan btw.

08-15-2010, 09:41 AM	#11
guns3545 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 438 Thanks: 661 Thanked 493 Times in 219 Posts	First of all, I'm sorry that you find yourself in a situation whereby you have to sell a family heirloom. On the other hand, if, indeed your rig hold up to inspection and further scrutiny, it is among the most valuable of the G-date variations. As previously mentioned by others, it is the fifth variation of six and was only produced in the d-block fairly late in the cycle of G-dates in 1935. About 2500 were produced making it one of the more scarce variations. The second most scarce in fact. Now to the average Luger collector, this would not mean much. But to an avid collector who appreciates the subtlety of acceptance marks and the transitions that took place in the d-block, the gun has additional value. An appraisal by itself does not gain much for you. You need to expose the rig to those who can appreciate its worth. This has a cost associated with it so whatever you do to "market" the rig, be sure to focus on the net proceeds to yourself not the gross proceeds that may be realized in an auction or sale through a dealer. Hope this helps, John PS: Pictures of the back of the holster will tell a lot about its "matching" or not. Just FYI, a lot of 1935 guns were not issued with 1935 holsters JR Last edited by guns3545; 08-15-2010 at 09:47 AM. Reason: Add info.

08-15-2010, 10:35 AM	#12
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Steve, please see the PM (personal message) I sent. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

08-15-2010, 01:39 PM	#13
maduro_fan User Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 19 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	mrerick - responded to your PM. more pictures coming up

08-15-2010, 01:50 PM	#14
maduro_fan User Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 19 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the help thus far. Now that I know better what I'm looking for I've posted a bunch more pics on the site at http://www.motosportsdesign.com/stevest/Luger - you can click on any individual picture for a 12mp high res shot if you want to look at more detail all of the pictures below are there as well in higher res. I'm just copying them here as well so there's an ongoing record here as requested above. Hopefully this greater detail will help in determining a value for the gun. I'd greatly appreciate your guys help with figuring out a fair value for the gun as this will help me to put a dark time in my families life behind us - and I'm sure that's what my grandfather would want me to do (as much as I hate to do it). I plan on offering it for sale here to you guys first, because of the wealth of information I'm getting from you I think it's only fair to offer it up here first and I want to price it fairly. I've taken pictures off all of the parts I could find with serial numbers and any proof marks that I could find. I'll post a few photos below with details in the posts. I'm only putting the ones with proofs here. If you look at the site linked above you'll see all the photos with the serial numbered parts - all are numbers matching.

08-15-2010, 01:58 PM	#15
maduro_fan User Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 19 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	First some shots of the gun itself and the entire set Attached Thumbnails

08-15-2010, 02:09 PM	#16
maduro_fan User Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 19 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here are the proof marks on the right side of the frame and barrel and also the serial number markings on the front of the receiver Attached Thumbnails

08-15-2010, 02:10 PM	#17
maduro_fan User Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 19 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here are the proof marks that are under the receiver/barrel and also on the underside of the rear of the receiver & bolt Attached Thumbnails

08-15-2010, 02:15 PM	#18
maduro_fan User Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 19 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here are the markings on the mags and on the tool. One of the mags has a + on it that's not on the other one. Both of them have an eagle with the 63 under it just like on the frame that may be hard to see on this picture. Both mags work perfect. Attached Thumbnails

08-15-2010, 02:17 PM	#19
maduro_fan User Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 19 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Lastly here are photos of the holster - the back side as requested and a better shot of the stamp inside the flap. I've also put a photo of the only issue I see with the holster - where the front sight has worn through the holster. Attached Thumbnails