I need some professional help!!!???

G.T. · 11-21-2009, 12:08 PM

I know how that sounds.... But, the help I need is in hardness testing... (rockwell scale)... and, is/are there any plating experts out there?? I need help identifing some old plating types? Let me know if you can help, I'll try to help back!

... Best to all, til...lat'r....GT...BTW, my email address is: gctomeks@msn.com

policeluger · 11-21-2009, 02:59 PM

I am in the dark here, nothing new, but what is meant by "plating types"??? we have about every type of metal expert here at China Lake NWC, if I had a better idea of what the subject is, I might be able to ask the right person.....

G.T. · 11-21-2009, 04:56 PM

Hi policeluger, I've some small parts, hinges, latches, screws, magazines (not necessarly Luger), etc... that have metal plating that was common in pre 1946 Europe, but are not readily found now??... Actually, probably still very common, but with the aging, and oxidation, that has taken place, it's hard to tell if it's nickel, tin, tin lead, zinc, over copper, etc.... and in what proportions... I need someone with the chemical means, or equipment to inspect and replicate a couple of these finishes... So I can continue on my merry little random never ending quests....

... If you have a go to guy, please let me in on it... I have samples / examples for the tests... but would like them back as they are original and hard to replace... Best to all, til...lat'r.....GT

policeluger · 11-21-2009, 05:40 PM

OK now I have a better understanding, will get this cast off my leg next week and will be able to get around better, will start asking questions and hope someone else jumps in here and helps also....

Heinz · 11-22-2009, 07:46 AM

GT, in my limited experience with plating, I am not aware that it would effect hardness to any extent that could be measured by a hardness tester. The plating is most often used to prevent oxidation and occasionally to improve "slipperiness" The later friction reduction often involves chrome, chome nickle or chrome-nickle-molybdenum. The identification of these plating compounds is usually done by chemical testing that will discolor the plating.
You might find what you want on this website
http://www.finishing.com/1200-1399/1269.shtml
I linked into a likely topic, you will have to surf a bit.

Lugerdoc · 11-22-2009, 12:41 PM

GT, You're the one I usually go to for help. Nothing definate, but I has alway heard that the pre 1916 luger mags were cadinum plated (oxidize with a yellow tint), later tin plated (which peels) and then Mauser used nickle until mid 1937. Informed contradictions welcome. Tom

G.T. · 11-22-2009, 02:40 PM

Hi to all and many thanks for the replies... Heinz, that is an excellent site and a good lead to answers to my questions... And Policeluger, it's alway good to have you in on the hunt!

Thomas, I think you are close, but I believe the yellow tint is most likely tin, and the flaking finish, nickel... I would be suprised if cad. was used this early, for that application, but it could be... ?? To be more specific:
I'm trying to determine the hardness and material best suited for all the pins in a Luger, and there are quite a few!

1) breechblock pin
2) middle toggle pin & retainer pin
3) rear main toggle pin
4) safety lever pin
5) connecting link pin
6) bellcrank pin
7) searbar plunger pin
8) extractor pin
9) trigger lever pin

And as for the plating..I'm looking to find out what they used for .22 conv. boxes..

1) hinge (I think tin / lead, over copper flash?)
2) screws (not a clue??)
3) latch & catch.. (I think dull tin plate?)

Anyway, that's my quest, and I'm certainly going to keep my nose to the trail... Best to all, til...lat'r...GT

11-21-2009, 12:08 PM	#1
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,525 Thanks: 1,321 Thanked 3,709 Times in 1,013 Posts	I need some professional help!!!??? I know how that sounds.... But, the help I need is in hardness testing... (rockwell scale)... and, is/are there any plating experts out there?? I need help identifing some old plating types? Let me know if you can help, I'll try to help back! ... Best to all, til...lat'r....GT...BTW, my email address is: gctomeks@msn.com

11-21-2009, 04:56 PM	#3
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,525 Thanks: 1,321 Thanked 3,709 Times in 1,013 Posts	Hi policeluger Hi policeluger, I've some small parts, hinges, latches, screws, magazines (not necessarly Luger), etc... that have metal plating that was common in pre 1946 Europe, but are not readily found now??... Actually, probably still very common, but with the aging, and oxidation, that has taken place, it's hard to tell if it's nickel, tin, tin lead, zinc, over copper, etc.... and in what proportions... I need someone with the chemical means, or equipment to inspect and replicate a couple of these finishes... So I can continue on my merry little random never ending quests.... ... If you have a go to guy, please let me in on it... I have samples / examples for the tests... but would like them back as they are original and hard to replace... Best to all, til...lat'r.....GT

11-22-2009, 12:41 PM	#6
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	GT, You're the one I usually go to for help. Nothing definate, but I has alway heard that the pre 1916 luger mags were cadinum plated (oxidize with a yellow tint), later tin plated (which peels) and then Mauser used nickle until mid 1937. Informed contradictions welcome. Tom __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

11-22-2009, 02:40 PM	#7
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,525 Thanks: 1,321 Thanked 3,709 Times in 1,013 Posts	hardness and plating... Hi to all and many thanks for the replies... Heinz, that is an excellent site and a good lead to answers to my questions... And Policeluger, it's alway good to have you in on the hunt! Thomas, I think you are close, but I believe the yellow tint is most likely tin, and the flaking finish, nickel... I would be suprised if cad. was used this early, for that application, but it could be... ?? To be more specific: I'm trying to determine the hardness and material best suited for all the pins in a Luger, and there are quite a few! 1) breechblock pin 2) middle toggle pin & retainer pin 3) rear main toggle pin 4) safety lever pin 5) connecting link pin 6) bellcrank pin 7) searbar plunger pin 8) extractor pin 9) trigger lever pin And as for the plating..I'm looking to find out what they used for .22 conv. boxes.. 1) hinge (I think tin / lead, over copper flash?) 2) screws (not a clue??) 3) latch & catch.. (I think dull tin plate?) Anyway, that's my quest, and I'm certainly going to keep my nose to the trail... Best to all, til...lat'r...GT

11-21-2009, 02:59 PM	#2
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	I am in the dark here, nothing new, but what is meant by "plating types"??? we have about every type of metal expert here at China Lake NWC, if I had a better idea of what the subject is, I might be able to ask the right person.....

11-21-2009, 05:40 PM	#4
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	OK now I have a better understanding, will get this cast off my leg next week and will be able to get around better, will start asking questions and hope someone else jumps in here and helps also....

11-22-2009, 07:46 AM	#5
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 411 Times in 180 Posts	GT, in my limited experience with plating, I am not aware that it would effect hardness to any extent that could be measured by a hardness tester. The plating is most often used to prevent oxidation and occasionally to improve "slipperiness" The later friction reduction often involves chrome, chome nickle or chrome-nickle-molybdenum. The identification of these plating compounds is usually done by chemical testing that will discolor the plating. You might find what you want on this website http://www.finishing.com/1200-1399/1269.shtml I linked into a likely topic, you will have to surf a bit.