Mag and loading tool questions

Ice · 09-30-2009, 06:39 PM

I bought a Commercial 1920's 7.65mm Alphabet Luger (marked Germany) at the Dallas Gunshow last Saturday. It came with a nickel plated body, aluminum based magazine marked in a way that I have never seen before; all I have ever seen were stamped only "GERMANY". Its base is stamped "MADE IN GERMANY" with no other ID on the mag. Can anyone tell me if this is a pre war or post war mag and is it appropriate for the pistol?

I also got a loading tool in the trade. Its completely unmarked. Can anyone say if it is a legitimate tool? DWM maybe?

Photos follow. Thanks to all for your help and comments.

Charlie

Edward Tinker · 09-30-2009, 08:40 PM

How thick is the tool?

Did you read what it says in the FAQ on telling a fake tool from a real?

Ed

Ice · 09-30-2009, 09:37 PM

Yes, I read FAQ # 25). It was extremely generalized so maybe I missed a nugget of information. The tool is .100 at its midsection beneath the wide crosspiece on the long side. The thumbpiece is .110.

HTH. Thanks

Charlie

Edward Tinker · 09-30-2009, 09:50 PM

Charlie, not sure what HTH means.

In millimeters is how I measure and is how it states in the original specifications.

An original tool should measure 2.5 mm in thickness and under 3mm.

An unmarked I used to always think was a DWM tool, but evidently Mauser also made many tools that were unmarked.

Ed

MFC · 10-01-2009, 02:04 AM

Charlie,
The mag is a commercial mag used by Mauser. They can be found in some Stoeger marked Lugers in the 'v' block. I beleive that they may have been available as replacement mags also in that time period. What is the suffix for your Alphabet commercial?

Ice · 10-01-2009, 07:37 AM

Ed, my tool measures exactly 2.5mm so I guess its original. HTH means "Hope that Helps".

Mike, thank you for the info that the mag is Commercial Mauser. Is there any chance that the mag is correct for the pistol? The suffix on my alpha Comm. is "L".

Thanks to both of you for your help and great info.

Best,

Charlie

Edward Tinker · 10-01-2009, 10:12 AM

I have seen earlier mags marked germany (wood based) and seen a few of these aluminium bottom ones marked "germany" and made in germany. I beleive both are pre-war and correct, but have never had anyone tell me different.

ed

Lugerdoc · 10-01-2009, 10:57 AM

Charlie, Your DWM tool looks right to me. The correct mag for your Alpha commerical should be tin plated with an unnumbered wood bottom. Nickel plated mag didn't appear until the early 1930s. The "made in Germany" marking was required by the US customs starting in 1923. Mags would only be maked if imported without a marked pistol. TH

MFC · 10-02-2009, 12:53 AM

Charlie,
Your Alphabet commercial 'l' suffix, was made late 1922 or 1923. Luger production moved from DWM-BKIW to Mauser in 1930. Mauser continued the commercial series in the 'v' suffix, where DWM-BKIW left off. The same type mag (stamped with S#) was also used in K date, G date, and early 1936 military Lugers. I've only seen these type mags with Mauser made Lugers, but I don't know when they were first available.

Afterthought: I think that this type of mag was also issued with some Simpson Lugers. I'm sure Ed can tell us what year they started to show up.

09-30-2009, 08:40 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,974 Thanks: 2,072 Thanked 4,609 Times in 2,123 Posts	How thick is the tool? Did you read what it says in the FAQ on telling a fake tool from a real? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-30-2009, 09:50 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,974 Thanks: 2,072 Thanked 4,609 Times in 2,123 Posts	Charlie, not sure what HTH means. In millimeters is how I measure and is how it states in the original specifications. An original tool should measure 2.5 mm in thickness and under 3mm. An unmarked I used to always think was a DWM tool, but evidently Mauser also made many tools that were unmarked. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-01-2009, 02:04 AM	#5
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Charlie, The mag is a commercial mag used by Mauser. They can be found in some Stoeger marked Lugers in the 'v' block. I beleive that they may have been available as replacement mags also in that time period. What is the suffix for your Alphabet commercial? __________________ Mike C.

10-01-2009, 10:12 AM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,974 Thanks: 2,072 Thanked 4,609 Times in 2,123 Posts	I have seen earlier mags marked germany (wood based) and seen a few of these aluminium bottom ones marked "germany" and made in germany. I beleive both are pre-war and correct, but have never had anyone tell me different. ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-01-2009, 10:57 AM	#8
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Charlie, Your DWM tool looks right to me. The correct mag for your Alpha commerical should be tin plated with an unnumbered wood bottom. Nickel plated mag didn't appear until the early 1930s. The "made in Germany" marking was required by the US customs starting in 1923. Mags would only be maked if imported without a marked pistol. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

09-30-2009, 09:37 PM	#3
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	Yes, I read FAQ # 25). It was extremely generalized so maybe I missed a nugget of information. The tool is .100 at its midsection beneath the wide crosspiece on the long side. The thumbpiece is .110. HTH. Thanks Charlie

10-01-2009, 07:37 AM	#6
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	Ed, my tool measures exactly 2.5mm so I guess its original. HTH means "Hope that Helps". Mike, thank you for the info that the mag is Commercial Mauser. Is there any chance that the mag is correct for the pistol? The suffix on my alpha Comm. is "L". Thanks to both of you for your help and great info. Best, Charlie

10-02-2009, 12:53 AM	#9
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Charlie, Your Alphabet commercial 'l' suffix, was made late 1922 or 1923. Luger production moved from DWM-BKIW to Mauser in 1930. Mauser continued the commercial series in the 'v' suffix, where DWM-BKIW left off. The same type mag (stamped with S#) was also used in K date, G date, and early 1936 military Lugers. I've only seen these type mags with Mauser made Lugers, but I don't know when they were first available. Afterthought: I think that this type of mag was also issued with some Simpson Lugers. I'm sure Ed can tell us what year they started to show up. __________________ Mike C. Last edited by MFC; 10-03-2009 at 01:18 AM.