New to luger question

mechdriver · 09-25-2009, 01:43 PM

Hi.
As you can tell, I'm new to the forum and new to lugers.
So my question is: How do you tell the difference between a commercial and a military luger? Specifically a DWM. It had no date on the chamber.

FNorm · 09-25-2009, 02:31 PM

Except for a few of the very early ones, all military were required to have the date stamped on the chamber, even if it was a coded date, like a G, P, S, or a K. Then look at the serial number. four digits with or without a letter suffix is usually military. Commercial had five digits. But the real proof is look for a crown N. We call that a C/N. usually on the left side of the receiver and underside the barrels. Early ones were on their side. A lazy C/N. Lastly, if it was for import to the USA, there will be 'Germany', or 'Made in Cermany' stamped somewhere on it.

Most common DWM commercials in this country are the 1920 series, or as it is called now the alphabet series. They had military style serial numbers, but the C/N and Germany stampings. With a serial number and suffix it is possible to tell what year it was made.

Pictures would help. We love pictures. See the albums section for what to shoot.

FN

Ron Wood · 09-25-2009, 02:37 PM

By the proof marks. For WWI era Lugers, a commercial will have a crown over upper case letters B, U and G, or after 1911 a crown over an upper case N. Up until 1910, military Lugers were not dated but will have the proof/acceptance marking on the right side of the receiver (except for the first issue army) that consists of a crown over Fraktur (German gothic) letters. There are other clues such as serial number placement, but that has some exceptions as well, so the proof marks are a good start.

(I type too slow. FNorm got it right away!)

mechdriver · 09-25-2009, 03:21 PM

Thanks for the info. I'll get some pictures on here when I can.

FNorm · 09-25-2009, 06:21 PM

Thank, Ron,

I was locked in on the alphabet commercials and didn't even consider the earlier ones.

FN

mechdriver · 09-28-2009, 09:54 PM

Here are some pictures. I hope they are good enough to tell me something about this gun.

mechdriver · 09-28-2009, 10:05 PM

A few more that may help.

Thanks in advance for any help dating this piece and hopefully finding out what it is worth.
All parts match the 02 of the 9702 serial number except that I can't find any numbers on the grips. Neither of the mags match.
The guy who brought this gun home used an engraving pen on the underside of the bolt and on one of the mags.
I also wonder if some of the parts have been 'touched up' on the blueing.

mechdriver

FNorm · 09-28-2009, 10:18 PM

Yes, It appears to be the alphabet series. The whole serial no. is 9702m. This was made from the last quarter of 1923 til the start of 'n' series in mid 1924. Your's would have been towards the end of the series, so probably spring of 1924.

I have one just like it, 200 numbers lower. Mine is a 7.65mm aka .30cal Luger. To check this see if a wooden pencil, the eraser end, will go down the muzzle. If a 9mm, it will pass easily. If 7.65 it will be tight or not go at all.

FN

lugerholsterrepair · 09-28-2009, 10:23 PM

Mech..An honest valuation of the pistol in this condition would be perhaps $500-600 at the most. You don't show the magazine if any.

Jerry Burney

mechdriver · 09-29-2009, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

Mech..An honest valuation of the pistol in this condition would be perhaps $500-600 at the most. You don't show the magazine if any.

Jerry Burney

Jerry,
I'll put up some picts of the two magazines that came with it this evening. Both are missing the follower button. One has a black bakelite base. The other is aluminium wit a number that doesn't match the gun.

mechdriver

mechdriver · 09-28-2009, 10:25 PM

It is definately 9mm. I've fired it.
The number is actually 9702. Now I understand what the 'alphabet' reference means.
Thanks.

Any guess as to a rough value?

FNorm · 09-28-2009, 10:33 PM

It has seen a lot of hard use. C heck with the dealers: Here's one. They refer to it using the older nomenclature, 1920 commercial. Take off about 25-30% for the business mark-up.

https://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php...fdfdbebfdb1f95

policeluger · 09-28-2009, 11:48 PM

Police sear safety.....is the front grip strap stamped ?

mechdriver · 09-29-2009, 06:28 AM

Nothing stamped on the front of the grip.

What do you mean by 'police sear safety'?

alanint · 09-29-2009, 08:29 AM

You will find a spring steel bar riveted to the upper receiver above the sideplate. This was a police requirement that prevented the gun from firing once disassembled.
(Lugers can actually be fired when apart by pressing in the sear bar with your fingers)

mechdriver · 09-29-2009, 09:35 AM

Thanks for the info.
I'm wondering now if I should have this gun reblued or keep it as is.

policeluger · 09-29-2009, 09:55 AM

Doug beat me to the meaning of police sear bar.....let me know if I can help

mechdriver · 09-30-2009, 01:23 PM

Didn't get them on here yesterday.

They are both missing the follower buttons and I am going to get GT to take care of that.
What else can you guys tell me about these mags?

Also, do all grips fit loose on lugers?

Mauser720 · 09-30-2009, 03:05 PM

mecdriver -

In regard to your question: "Also, do all grips fit loose on lugers?"

No, they do not all fit loosely. But it does seem that a lot of them do, even on the expensive ones.

One solution is to put a very small rubber "O" ring under the grip screws. Sometimes this works.

09-25-2009, 01:43 PM	#1
mechdriver User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	New to luger question Hi. As you can tell, I'm new to the forum and new to lugers. So my question is: How do you tell the difference between a commercial and a military luger? Specifically a DWM. It had no date on the chamber.

09-25-2009, 02:31 PM	#2
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Except for a few of the very early ones, all military were required to have the date stamped on the chamber, even if it was a coded date, like a G, P, S, or a K. Then look at the serial number. four digits with or without a letter suffix is usually military. Commercial had five digits. But the real proof is look for a crown N. We call that a C/N. usually on the left side of the receiver and underside the barrels. Early ones were on their side. A lazy C/N. Lastly, if it was for import to the USA, there will be 'Germany', or 'Made in Cermany' stamped somewhere on it. Most common DWM commercials in this country are the 1920 series, or as it is called now the alphabet series. They had military style serial numbers, but the C/N and Germany stampings. With a serial number and suffix it is possible to tell what year it was made. Pictures would help. We love pictures. See the albums section for what to shoot. FN Last edited by FNorm; 09-25-2009 at 02:41 PM. Reason: addendum

09-25-2009, 02:37 PM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	By the proof marks. For WWI era Lugers, a commercial will have a crown over upper case letters B, U and G, or after 1911 a crown over an upper case N. Up until 1910, military Lugers were not dated but will have the proof/acceptance marking on the right side of the receiver (except for the first issue army) that consists of a crown over Fraktur (German gothic) letters. There are other clues such as serial number placement, but that has some exceptions as well, so the proof marks are a good start. (I type too slow. FNorm got it right away!) __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-28-2009, 09:54 PM	#6
mechdriver User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here are some pictures. I hope they are good enough to tell me something about this gun. Attached Thumbnails

09-28-2009, 10:05 PM	#7
mechdriver User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	A few more that may help. Thanks in advance for any help dating this piece and hopefully finding out what it is worth. All parts match the 02 of the 9702 serial number except that I can't find any numbers on the grips. Neither of the mags match. The guy who brought this gun home used an engraving pen on the underside of the bolt and on one of the mags. I also wonder if some of the parts have been 'touched up' on the blueing. mechdriver Attached Thumbnails

09-25-2009, 03:21 PM	#4
mechdriver User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the info. I'll get some pictures on here when I can.

09-25-2009, 06:21 PM	#5
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Thank, Ron, I was locked in on the alphabet commercials and didn't even consider the earlier ones. FN

09-28-2009, 10:18 PM	#8
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Yes, It appears to be the alphabet series. The whole serial no. is 9702m. This was made from the last quarter of 1923 til the start of 'n' series in mid 1924. Your's would have been towards the end of the series, so probably spring of 1924. I have one just like it, 200 numbers lower. Mine is a 7.65mm aka .30cal Luger. To check this see if a wooden pencil, the eraser end, will go down the muzzle. If a 9mm, it will pass easily. If 7.65 it will be tight or not go at all. FN Last edited by FNorm; 09-28-2009 at 10:19 PM. Reason: correcton

09-28-2009, 10:23 PM	#9
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Mech..An honest valuation of the pistol in this condition would be perhaps $500-600 at the most. You don't show the magazine if any. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know." Last edited by lugerholsterrepair; 09-28-2009 at 11:18 PM.

09-28-2009, 10:25 PM	#11
mechdriver User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It is definately 9mm. I've fired it. The number is actually 9702. Now I understand what the 'alphabet' reference means. Thanks. Any guess as to a rough value?

09-28-2009, 10:33 PM	#12
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	It has seen a lot of hard use. C heck with the dealers: Here's one. They refer to it using the older nomenclature, 1920 commercial. Take off about 25-30% for the business mark-up. https://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php...fdfdbebfdb1f95

09-28-2009, 11:48 PM	#13
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Police sear safety.....is the front grip strap stamped ?

09-29-2009, 06:28 AM	#14
mechdriver User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Nothing stamped on the front of the grip. What do you mean by 'police sear safety'?

09-29-2009, 08:29 AM	#15
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	You will find a spring steel bar riveted to the upper receiver above the sideplate. This was a police requirement that prevented the gun from firing once disassembled. (Lugers can actually be fired when apart by pressing in the sear bar with your fingers)

09-29-2009, 09:35 AM	#16
mechdriver User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the info. I'm wondering now if I should have this gun reblued or keep it as is.

09-29-2009, 09:55 AM	#17
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Doug beat me to the meaning of police sear bar.....let me know if I can help

09-30-2009, 01:23 PM	#18
mechdriver User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Magazines that came with my DWM Didn't get them on here yesterday. They are both missing the follower buttons and I am going to get GT to take care of that. What else can you guys tell me about these mags? Also, do all grips fit loose on lugers? Attached Thumbnails

09-30-2009, 03:05 PM	#19
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	mecdriver - In regard to your question: "Also, do all grips fit loose on lugers?" No, they do not all fit loosely. But it does seem that a lot of them do, even on the expensive ones. One solution is to put a very small rubber "O" ring under the grip screws. Sometimes this works. __________________ Mauser720 - Ron "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."