New/Old Commercial Model - Info Requested

sheepherder · 04-21-2009, 06:33 PM

Sorry!!! Having problems!!!

OK! This is a commercial Luger I bought 3 months ago, but was unable to pick up until today...

Ron Smith · 04-21-2009, 09:29 PM

Did you have a Pirate moment ?

George Anderson · 06-28-2009, 08:43 AM

The number inside the side plate on DWM's is the first part of the serial number.

sheepherder · 06-28-2009, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Anderson

The number inside the side plate on DWM's is the first part of the serial number.

And since it *is* the first two of my ser #, that would seem to indicate that it is "original" and not force match...

However, after reading several threads here, the witness marks on barrel/grip frame are quite obviously two different strikes, and the font of the "n" is different, both indicating a re-barrel...

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

Old catalog lists "Reconditioned Lugers". It's interesting to read what Stoeger offered in 1939...

alvin - Did you buy one of those repro Stoeger 1939 catalogs??? I was thinking about that myself...

alvin · 06-28-2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

Did you buy one of those repro Stoeger 1939 catalogs??? I was thinking about that myself...

I bought a 1939 reprint catalog from Amazon, cheaper, less than $20 (shipping included). It contains lots of information on German commercial guns.

I also ordered a 1928 catalog (reprint). Waiting its arrival.

====

The catalog also has a long list of American guns -- Winchester, Remington, Colt, S&W, H&R etc. If you collect American brand names, it has good information. Lots of other stuffs were listed, reloading equipments, gunsmithing tools, lathe, milling machines, cameras (!), etc. etc.

The only exception -- I did not find FN guns inside, which is unfortunate.

sheepherder · 06-28-2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

I bought a 1939 reprint catalog from Amazon, cheaper, less than $20 (shipping included). It contains lots of information on German commercial guns.

I also ordered a 1928 catalog (reprint). Waiting its arrival.

Just a WAG, but those are probably Cornell Pubs reprints...they have a bunch listed...

http://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/...ic-stoeger.php

George Anderson · 06-28-2009, 09:24 AM

Doesn't look like it's been rebarreled to me.

sheepherder · 06-28-2009, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Anderson

Doesn't look like it's been rebarreled to me.

I think so. Here are my clues to this -

1. Front sight blade not quite right length (too long)
2. Fonts different barrel-to-frame
3. Bluing different barrel/frame
4. Witness marks don't line up
5. Witness strikes at different angles - two separate strikes

Witness marks, front sight blade can be seen above - bluing & fonts below...

Also - Chamber end of barrel is raw steel; my other Luger (S/42) has blued chamber end of barrel...

MFC · 06-28-2009, 03:20 PM

Rich,
The barrel crown should be in the white on all rust blue variations. Your S/42 must be made after mid 1937, which is when they started to salt blue everything... small parts which were previously strawed, internals and barrel crown.
I've noticed the font difference on all of the 'n' suffix Alphabet commercials. I don't know why.

alvin · 06-28-2009, 04:34 PM

I still assume the barrel of this gun was replaced. Witness mark is questionable, and that's not alone. The color of the barrel and receiver is so unbalanced. The quality of the job was super, indeed, probably a "reconditioned" Luger done in the factory. I don't know how German installing barrels. It must be installed using a special tool which US gunsmith do not have -- they could install it once without leaving marks (original gun), then they could install it twice or more times without leaving marks (reconditioned gun). Looks being a factory reworked gun.

====

Also, thanks for the cornellpub link. I will make a collection of those catalogs. Slowly.

George Anderson · 06-28-2009, 05:51 PM

Ain't nothng wrong with it.It's a 1920's commercial.

calibrator · 04-21-2009, 09:34 PM

Hello, about all that I can offer is that the serial # on the barrel appears to have halos (a GOOD thing). In the same photo the witness marks appear to be in alignment. Need a better shot of the witness marks. The mag is a MecGar (made in Italy cost ~ $30) , I have one in ALL my Lugers. Gotta say, those grips sure look nice. I'd upgrade from my Alphabet Commercial to this one if I could. .30 cal is a drag on the market as ammo can be priced at $1.00 a round (Fiocchi is ~1/2 that) unless you are a reloader. Old-timers say the .30 is more accurate and has more penetration than 9mm. I've had 9mm bullets stick in 1/2" plywood shot out of a 16" barrel at normal pistol ranges. Nice looking pistol, I'd give you $800-900 for it after an inspection. Best Regards!! JOE

calibrator · 04-21-2009, 09:44 PM

Apparently the Abyss of Lost Replies. I was posting the above to something else that seems to have vanished. Good Luck Whoever you are!! Joe

sheepherder · 04-21-2009, 09:51 PM

Looks pretty clean inside...No rust...Goodly amount of bluing left, except where you would expect a holster to wear...

Barrel is a darker black than the rest of the pistol...and the rear slant of the front sight isn't lined up in a straight line like my other Luger barrels...

Numbers all match [82], except no number on breechblock or firing pin...Aftermarket mag w/steel extruded body & plastic 2-pin base...

sheepherder · 04-21-2009, 10:15 PM

No corrosion under grips...and aftermarket grips fit very snug, and are thinner than the Indian grips so prevalent nowadays...

sheepherder · 04-21-2009, 10:17 PM

Well maintained, as far as I can tell...

sheepherder · 04-21-2009, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calibrator

Apparently the Abyss of Lost Replies. I was posting the above to something else that seems to have vanished. Good Luck Whoever you are!! Joe

Don't give up, Joe!!! I seem to be experiencing technical difficulties...

Ice · 04-22-2009, 07:20 AM

That is a very nice Commercial. The little wear just adds character and the aftermarket grips look very good. Good deal; bet it was hard to wait for so long before you picked it up.

sheepherder · 04-22-2009, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice

Good deal; bet it was hard to wait for so long before you picked it up.

Didn't have a choice...The dealers' State Sales Permit expired and he had to re-apply all over again...Couldn't buy or sell handguns until it was re-issued. I had bought it on AuctionArms.com and had it shipped to him...Just when the permit expired...

It, and about 20+ other pistols, sat for three months...

Rifles, shotguns, and ammo were unaffected...New York State has a separate sales permit just for pistols/handguns...

sheepherder · 04-22-2009, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calibrator

In the same photo the witness marks appear to be in alignment. Need a better shot of the witness marks. The mag is a MecGar (made in Italy cost ~ $30) , I have one in ALL my Lugers.

Here's a shot of the witness marks. Also of the front sight, you can see where the "step" is.

The mag is a dull finish; not the shiny finish of the new Mec-gars...Checkering on button is finer than new Mec's...and the checkered part is bigger dia...maybe an old Mec-Gar???

04-21-2009, 06:33 PM	#1
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,197 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	New/Old Commercial Model - Info Requested Sorry!!! Having problems!!! OK! This is a commercial Luger I bought 3 months ago, but was unable to pick up until today... Attached Thumbnails Last edited by sheepherder; 04-21-2009 at 10:38 PM.

04-21-2009, 09:29 PM	#2
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Did you have a Pirate moment ? __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

06-28-2009, 03:20 PM	#9
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Rich, The barrel crown should be in the white on all rust blue variations. Your S/42 must be made after mid 1937, which is when they started to salt blue everything... small parts which were previously strawed, internals and barrel crown. I've noticed the font difference on all of the 'n' suffix Alphabet commercials. I don't know why. __________________ Mike C.

04-21-2009, 09:51 PM	#14
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,197 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	Looks pretty clean inside...No rust...Goodly amount of bluing left, except where you would expect a holster to wear... Barrel is a darker black than the rest of the pistol...and the rear slant of the front sight isn't lined up in a straight line like my other Luger barrels... Numbers all match [82], except no number on breechblock or firing pin...Aftermarket mag w/steel extruded body & plastic 2-pin base... Attached Thumbnails

04-21-2009, 10:15 PM	#15
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,197 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	No corrosion under grips...and aftermarket grips fit very snug, and are thinner than the Indian grips so prevalent nowadays... Attached Thumbnails

06-28-2009, 08:43 AM	#3
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	The number inside the side plate on DWM's is the first part of the serial number.

06-28-2009, 09:24 AM	#7
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	Doesn't look like it's been rebarreled to me.

06-28-2009, 04:34 PM	#10
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	I still assume the barrel of this gun was replaced. Witness mark is questionable, and that's not alone. The color of the barrel and receiver is so unbalanced. The quality of the job was super, indeed, probably a "reconditioned" Luger done in the factory. I don't know how German installing barrels. It must be installed using a special tool which US gunsmith do not have -- they could install it once without leaving marks (original gun), then they could install it twice or more times without leaving marks (reconditioned gun). Looks being a factory reworked gun. ==== Also, thanks for the cornellpub link. I will make a collection of those catalogs. Slowly.

06-28-2009, 05:51 PM	#11
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	Ain't nothng wrong with it.It's a 1920's commercial.

04-21-2009, 09:34 PM	#12
calibrator User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cave Creek Posts: 315 Thanks: 55 Thanked 244 Times in 93 Posts	Hello, about all that I can offer is that the serial # on the barrel appears to have halos (a GOOD thing). In the same photo the witness marks appear to be in alignment. Need a better shot of the witness marks. The mag is a MecGar (made in Italy cost ~ $30) , I have one in ALL my Lugers. Gotta say, those grips sure look nice. I'd upgrade from my Alphabet Commercial to this one if I could. .30 cal is a drag on the market as ammo can be priced at $1.00 a round (Fiocchi is ~1/2 that) unless you are a reloader. Old-timers say the .30 is more accurate and has more penetration than 9mm. I've had 9mm bullets stick in 1/2" plywood shot out of a 16" barrel at normal pistol ranges. Nice looking pistol, I'd give you $800-900 for it after an inspection. Best Regards!! JOE

04-21-2009, 09:44 PM	#13
calibrator User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cave Creek Posts: 315 Thanks: 55 Thanked 244 Times in 93 Posts	Apparently the Abyss of Lost Replies. I was posting the above to something else that seems to have vanished. Good Luck Whoever you are!! Joe

04-21-2009, 10:17 PM	#16
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,197 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	Well maintained, as far as I can tell... Attached Thumbnails

04-22-2009, 07:20 AM	#18
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	That is a very nice Commercial. The little wear just adds character and the aftermarket grips look very good. Good deal; bet it was hard to wait for so long before you picked it up.