Help on a 41 dwm luger= i know sounds strange

kearney luger · 04-05-2009, 03:06 AM

Hope some knows more than I do. Mother in law recently gave us father in laws gun, she knows little except he got it at an estate sale around 17 years ago and treasured it.

We've been researching and at first it appeared that a 41 dwm don't exist, then saw a couple on internet that were dismissed as pieces put together. Got a book called "Standard Catalog of Military Firearms" 4 th edition by Phillip Peterson. On pg 120 listed under Mauser Manufactered Lugers 1930-1942 DWM, Mauser Oberndorf and states the front toggle link is still marked "DWM" as leftover parts were intermixed with new mauser parts in the production of this pistol. This is one of the first lugers to be finished with the "salt blue" process. There were approx. 500 manufactured with one to four digit serial numbers with the letter "v" suffix. This is a rare variation. ///End of quote
As you will see ours has this v, compared it to your pix online of suffixes. thank you. 500 with 1 to 4 digit s.n. mmmm another place online tells dwm toggles were used by mauser is www.lugerlpo8.free.fr/fsite03.htm or put that in search engine, look under model history 5th paragragh.

Gun appears to be a 1934 gun model-same as black widow
dwm toggle-v rear site is numbered
extractor marked geladen on side numbered on top, same 2 digit sn all over it. wood checkered grips same number inside.
seriall number has v suffix, underside of barrel sn and gauge 883
Proofmarks match those on Phoenixinvestmentarms.com under "41"dated '42' mauser rig history file.

Get this to boot: as if 1 of 500 isn't rare enough. This gun was scrolled all over. Ok some may be leery of when this was done. But if you look on internet in a search engine I use ask, George Duncan's historical facts of world war II, under lesser known facts of wwII on page 6-more lesser known facts half way down the page under Gun Accidents, : it says that the danish resistance offered and did scroll work for officers so they could sabatage their gun to blow up and hundreds we done. > not thousands! We have never fired this gun. /thank god.

Okay so by now some of you might think that I'm a know it all, I'm not, but I have looked hard for answers.

Now what I want from you experts. Is there any infor you can give me on either subject?

What is your opinion on what I have here?

Any thoughts on value?

And do you or can you give me a name of a certified luger appraiser who can authenticate this gun and appraise its value? (without trying to buy it or get me to sell to someone they know)

Sorry if my pix quality ain't great, I put it on highest pixel count for clarity.

kearney luger · 04-05-2009, 03:12 AM

more pix on 41 dwm

kearney luger · 04-05-2009, 03:24 AM

some more pix

LugerVern · 04-05-2009, 11:02 PM

Hi Kearney

Welcome to the Luger forum!

There is a very large amount of information spanning decades and several wars to sort through; it is very easy to get a bit turned around when analyzing your first luger.

I think I would start by researching when the Ã¢??P08Ã¢?Â first appears on the side of the Mauser made Lugers then ask your self is it likely that a DWM toggle was still being used when the gun was manufactured.

This will help set the stage for further conversation.

Please keep an open mind as we tell you about your gun.

Again welcome to the forum

Vern

policeluger · 04-06-2009, 01:35 AM

Vern, you are a diplomat of the highest order......

alvin · 04-06-2009, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kearney luger

And do you or can you give me a name of a certified luger appraiser who can authenticate this gun and appraise its value? (without trying to buy it or get me to sell to someone they know)

Simpson LTD (www.simpsonltd.com) offers appraising service.

The value of this gun would be a few hundred if it were not engraved. Aftermarket engraving is not cheap, added value would depend on the buyer who appreciates it.

kearney luger · 04-06-2009, 03:17 AM

Okay, I get the gist, you think the gun is a bust. I do know that p o8's were being manufactured in 1941. The dwm toggle, i only thought it was still being used from what that Standard catalog of military firearms book said Mauser manufactured lugers 1930-1942 dwm, mauser oberndorf etc. Thats the main reason. saying they intermixed old and new parts and they are marked with a v suffix. I guess i was guiliable to think a po8 41 could have had a dwm toggle put on it.
I guess the history of the what the danish resistance did to the gun and officer doesn't matter either. I just wish now that I hadn't put so much time into researching. Guess I won't need to insure it now, I can just display it for its beauty.

Thanks for letting me down easy. I'll swallow hard and get over it. Sorry I took up your time.

LugerVern · 04-06-2009, 05:51 AM

Kearney

Relax, hang around the forum awhile, lots to learn about lugers and other things too!

Someone put a lot of effort into your gun to make it their own and now you have it in your hands, nothing wrong with that .

We like seeing pictures of all lugers and appreciate you taking the time to post yours

Vern

MFC · 04-06-2009, 02:51 AM

Kearney,
Mauser used up leftover DWM parts on commercial Luger production. The 'v' suffix that you referenced is a continuation of the commercial serial number sequence. The 'v' suffix on this 41 (1941) dated Luger is in the military sequence of serial numbers.

Ice · 04-06-2009, 06:15 AM

Its a nice looking Luger and a great start for your collection, if you are interested.

Charlie

Edward Tinker · 04-06-2009, 10:15 AM

A luger is a luger is a luger, just different.

It may be incorrect, but its still a luger.

I have not read this book, so can't comment on its accuaracy or lack thereof. BUT, many books that don't specilize in lugers use info from the "old" standards and the information is Just wrong / out of date etc. Be advised; most of the information out there on webpages is "reasonably" accurate, but huge amounts is old information, or just wrong....

Value is around $600 for a shooter luger and then add to what someone who liked the scroll work would want to pay? maybe a $100, maybe $1500??

The two sites where luger collectors really show up is here and in Jan Stills forum http://lugers.gunboards.com although several other forums discuss lugers and do it well. This does not mean that there are not scores of collectors who don't know their stuff and they are just not computer guys. I talk to guys all the time who simply have no desire to come onto the web.

I am no expert, but I do come up with smart / correct luger things to say, because I have the latest books and talk to friends who know far more than I do.

Ed

policeluger · 04-06-2009, 10:41 AM

WOW cleaned that up......decaf Ed, decaf......

Edward Tinker · 04-06-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by policeluger

WOW cleaned that up......decaf Ed, decaf......

hey, only two mispellings that I saw

Lugerdoc · 04-06-2009, 10:42 AM

Kearny, As said above, your 41 PO8 is not one of the Obendorf/DWM lugers, but judging from which parts are engraved, I would guess that your luger started out as a matching 41BYF and somewhere along the lline, the unengraved DWM toggle link was added. If you wish to better establish it linage, I can supply an unnumbered code 42 or a #88 BYF center link, either in minty condition. TH hellerarms@webtv.net

Tomathvl · 04-06-2009, 10:57 AM

The gun appears number matching except for probably the toggle portion marked with DWM. I would venture a guess that whomever had the gun engraved thought the fancy script DWM fit better with the engraving than a block lettered byf and changed that portion of the toggle. Too bad but it does look nice.

04-06-2009, 02:51 AM	#9
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Kearney, Mauser used up leftover DWM parts on commercial Luger production. The 'v' suffix that you referenced is a continuation of the commercial serial number sequence. The 'v' suffix on this 41 (1941) dated Luger is in the military sequence of serial numbers. __________________ Mike C.

04-06-2009, 10:15 AM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,974 Thanks: 2,072 Thanked 4,608 Times in 2,123 Posts	A luger is a luger is a luger, just different. It may be incorrect, but its still a luger. I have not read this book, so can't comment on its accuaracy or lack thereof. BUT, many books that don't specilize in lugers use info from the "old" standards and the information is Just wrong / out of date etc. Be advised; most of the information out there on webpages is "reasonably" accurate, but huge amounts is old information, or just wrong.... Value is around $600 for a shooter luger and then add to what someone who liked the scroll work would want to pay? maybe a $100, maybe $1500?? The two sites where luger collectors really show up is here and in Jan Stills forum http://lugers.gunboards.com although several other forums discuss lugers and do it well. This does not mean that there are not scores of collectors who don't know their stuff and they are just not computer guys. I talk to guys all the time who simply have no desire to come onto the web. I am no expert, but I do come up with smart / correct luger things to say, because I have the latest books and talk to friends who know far more than I do. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-06-2009, 10:42 AM	#14
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Kearny, As said above, your 41 PO8 is not one of the Obendorf/DWM lugers, but judging from which parts are engraved, I would guess that your luger started out as a matching 41BYF and somewhere along the lline, the unengraved DWM toggle link was added. If you wish to better establish it linage, I can supply an unnumbered code 42 or a #88 BYF center link, either in minty condition. TH hellerarms@webtv.net __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

04-05-2009, 11:02 PM	#4
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	Hi Kearney Welcome to the Luger forum! There is a very large amount of information spanning decades and several wars to sort through; it is very easy to get a bit turned around when analyzing your first luger. I think I would start by researching when the Ã¢??P08Ã¢?Â first appears on the side of the Mauser made Lugers then ask your self is it likely that a DWM toggle was still being used when the gun was manufactured. This will help set the stage for further conversation. Please keep an open mind as we tell you about your gun. Again welcome to the forum Vern

04-06-2009, 01:35 AM	#5
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Vern, you are a diplomat of the highest order......

04-06-2009, 03:17 AM	#7
kearney luger New User Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Okay, I get the gist, you think the gun is a bust. I do know that p o8's were being manufactured in 1941. The dwm toggle, i only thought it was still being used from what that Standard catalog of military firearms book said Mauser manufactured lugers 1930-1942 dwm, mauser oberndorf etc. Thats the main reason. saying they intermixed old and new parts and they are marked with a v suffix. I guess i was guiliable to think a po8 41 could have had a dwm toggle put on it. I guess the history of the what the danish resistance did to the gun and officer doesn't matter either. I just wish now that I hadn't put so much time into researching. Guess I won't need to insure it now, I can just display it for its beauty. Thanks for letting me down easy. I'll swallow hard and get over it. Sorry I took up your time.

04-06-2009, 05:51 AM	#8
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	Kearney Relax, hang around the forum awhile, lots to learn about lugers and other things too! Someone put a lot of effort into your gun to make it their own and now you have it in your hands, nothing wrong with that . We like seeing pictures of all lugers and appreciate you taking the time to post yours Vern

04-06-2009, 06:15 AM	#10
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	Its a nice looking Luger and a great start for your collection, if you are interested. Charlie

04-06-2009, 10:41 AM	#12
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	WOW cleaned that up......decaf Ed, decaf......

04-06-2009, 10:57 AM	#15
Tomathvl User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Milan, IN Posts: 363 Thanks: 3 Thanked 48 Times in 19 Posts	The gun appears number matching except for probably the toggle portion marked with DWM. I would venture a guess that whomever had the gun engraved thought the fancy script DWM fit better with the engraving than a block lettered byf and changed that portion of the toggle. Too bad but it does look nice.