Can't uncock luger

mountain guy · 12-09-2008, 10:04 AM

It will be very obvious that I know nothing about Lugers. I bought a pair of them two years ago after watching a TV program on the ten best firearms ever made and the Luger was number one! So I thought I would try my luck at a local gun show and someone (who needed the money to build his first house) was selling two Lugers with a metal carrying case and one black holster. He said he had lived next door to a WWII Vet. that brought them back from Germany after the war. This young man made the Luger owner promise that if he ever sold them that he would buy them. Time pasted and they were sold to the young man but now he had to sell them to build his first house. Well that is about all I know about Lugers. I had wanted to shoot these great pistols but they are in such nice condition I thought I better not! So every now and then I get them out of their case and look at them. All I can say is they sure are works of art.

Well this morning I decided to pull back on the toggle and open it up to see what it looked like on the inside. And now I cannot get the gun to release no matter what I do. And I was afraid to do it to the other gun for fear I messed something up on the first one. Both of them are unloaded. I was hoping that someone would take pity on me and answer my post. Thank you for your time in answering.

Steinar · 12-09-2008, 10:14 AM

Sounds like you tried to uncock it with the safety on.. are you sure it's off?

mountain guy · 12-09-2008, 10:26 AM

Hi Mr. Kane I have tried both with the safety off and on. I assume the word "Gesichert" exposed and showing means the safety is engaged? And thank you for your response. Len

Edward Tinker · 12-09-2008, 10:32 AM

pull the magazine out and then the toggle will release, once you pull it back slightly

mountain guy · 12-09-2008, 10:51 AM

You Mr. Tinker are a genius! That was it! Boy for many years of schooling I have never been too old (or young) to learn. I will remember this always!!! And thank you for your kindly information and not laughing too loud! Len

Edward Tinker · 12-09-2008, 10:53 AM

we all forget stuff now and then, and especially a new gun, you should have seen me trying to take apart the Radom I just got to ensure it had matching numbers so i could state that before selling. What a bear, until I figured it out and read take down on the net

....

mountain guy · 12-09-2008, 11:16 AM

I think the time has come for me to learn a little more about these guns and noticed you have written about them and particularly about the GI's coming home after WWII with their lugers. That certainly interests me because of what I know about the pair that I have. I will be going to that site to order one as my way of thanking you for your kindly reply and great help. AND to learn! I have only one book on Lugers right now. It is Luger Tips by Michael Reese II. It has the history of Luger production and LOTS of great pictures with some interesting information!

Would you give me a definition of what is a Simson luger?

Edward Tinker · 12-09-2008, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountain guy

Would you give me a definition of what is a Simson luger?

The bring back book is a compliation of stories of items brought back, told in the words of the GI, paperwork or family / friends; more fun than anything, not to lose a sale, but....

There were 6 manufacturers of lugers (mainly in this order);

DWM
Erfurt
Swiss
Simson
Krieghoff
Mauser

Simson fixed and then made new lugers during the interwar period, from after WW1 till the nazi's took power in 1934/1935 time period.

In essence, Simson was a jewish firm that was selected as the refurbisher and manufactuer of lugers for whatever reasons, possily they were politically connected, but what I beleive and is most likely they were chosen because they were a smaller firm and DWM and Mauser were huge firms and the IMKK did not want the larger firms to have the war type capability at their fingertips.

Simson was chosen and fixed a huge amount of items of weapons for the Weimar military and also made about 12,000 lugers (the smallest amount made by one firm).

Ed

The Virginian · 12-09-2008, 02:42 PM

Lugers are a bit daunting to those more familiar with the Colt/Browning type action on a pistol so, don't feel bad at all as it took me quite sometime to get comfortable with the Luger.

mountain guy · 12-09-2008, 03:41 PM

When I bought your book from the site this afternoon, https://www.simpsonltd.com/veteranbb.php I also looked up the Simson Lugers that were for sale. And yes they did command a premium and now I know why. Were most of these guns re-worked from older Lugers or were most of their production new lugers? And is there a way to know the difference? The site that sells your books have a great number of Lugers for sale with great pictures. I was wondering if you could educate me about one other noun that I do not understand: straw? Is that the color of the trigger and those metals? I guess that is very important to know when buying a Luger. Thank you again and I have enjoyed your posts.

mountain guy · 12-09-2008, 03:51 PM

Well Virginian I sure was dumbfounded to realize I had no idea what I was doing! The only thing I could think of was to go to a site where I could find people who KNEW lugers. I have belonged to a JEEP site for over a year and never posted anything so I am not great about asking for help. I try to dig it out myself from the site but this was so basic I was afraid after looking for an hour that I had to ask! And knowing the caliber of people who are regulars on a site like this, it took 30 more minutes to build up the nerve to do it. I thought I may have to wait for days to get an answer all the while not knowing if the gun STUCK in this position was good for it. What a morning THIS has been. Thanks for your comments!

mountain guy · 12-09-2008, 03:56 PM

Mr. von Vlimmeren. I thank you for that timely reply. That is the only thing on my lugers that I could think they meant by straw. Because it does look like the color of straw when you look at it. And this then determines if the pistol has been well used or lightly used I imagine. Now I know why they put stock in that color as well as the bluing for pricing purposes. I appreciate your help in this matter. Len

The Virginian · 12-09-2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountain guy

Well Virginian I sure was dumbfounded to realize I had no idea what I was doing! The only thing I could think of was to go to a site where I could find people who KNEW lugers. I have belonged to a JEEP site for over a year and never posted anything so I am not great about asking for help. I try to dig it out myself from the site but this was so basic I was afraid after looking for an hour that I had to ask! And knowing the caliber of people who are regulars on a site like this, it took 30 more minutes to build up the nerve to do it. I thought I may have to wait for days to get an answer all the while not knowing if the gun STUCK in this position was good for it. What a morning THIS has been. Thanks for your comments!

Moutain Guy: Glad we were able to help and at the risk of sounding presumptuous, remember that there really are no "dumb questions" about Lugers that you can post on this board. It is always a pleasure for me to help someone who is looking for information. It has been a great resource for me.

Vlim · 12-09-2008, 03:46 PM

Yep, straw is the name given to the gold color that can be observed on many luger's small parts (trigger, takedown lever, safety lever, ejector).

The strawing is the result of heating those parts to a certain temperature, then letting them cool.

Edward Tinker · 12-09-2008, 04:08 PM

Len, that is why you should buy my Simson book

MANY lugers were refurbed and also about 12,000 were newly made. The following things are to tell the difffernece in new and refurbed:

1. Acceptance and proofing on right (should be Simson markings)
2. Simson acceptance on almost all small parts
3. Either no suffix or "a" suffix on front of frame, no other suffixes are correct
4. Stock lug should be marked with either E6 E6 or E33 E33 (although one E6 E7 is known)

Ed

mountain guy · 12-09-2008, 05:01 PM

I thought you might say that cause I had a dozen more questions to ask but thought I better just ask one! I may have to do just that and buy that book as well but wished you had written on a less VALUABLE subject! This type of Luger sounds like it would be the KEYSTONE of many collections! But I like the fact that I now know a source to contact if I find one. You have been the best help and I sure have enjoyed this post with you! Thanks again!

Edward Tinker · 12-18-2008, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountain guy

......This type of Luger sounds like it would be the KEYSTONE of many collections!

oh they are just laying around at yard sales ...

Went Blakely · 12-18-2008, 11:47 PM

Hehe that photo just made my week. Excellent!

mountain guy · 12-20-2008, 09:54 PM

WOW! The photo made my week too! Very very nice! Thank you so much for sharing! I know you must be very proud of your collection! Thanks Mr. Tinker! I will now not pass up any yard sales!

Edward Tinker · 12-20-2008, 10:34 PM

okay, didn't pick any up at yard sales, but in fact bought 3 or 4 from friends, the rest from folks telling me where they were (at a gun show, calling me, emailing me, etc).

actually have sold two of the ones in the pictures, but bought another 3 to replace them :>)

I'll try to do an up-to-date photo tomorrow if I remember

ed

12-09-2008, 10:04 AM	#1
mountain guy User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Can't uncock luger It will be very obvious that I know nothing about Lugers. I bought a pair of them two years ago after watching a TV program on the ten best firearms ever made and the Luger was number one! So I thought I would try my luck at a local gun show and someone (who needed the money to build his first house) was selling two Lugers with a metal carrying case and one black holster. He said he had lived next door to a WWII Vet. that brought them back from Germany after the war. This young man made the Luger owner promise that if he ever sold them that he would buy them. Time pasted and they were sold to the young man but now he had to sell them to build his first house. Well that is about all I know about Lugers. I had wanted to shoot these great pistols but they are in such nice condition I thought I better not! So every now and then I get them out of their case and look at them. All I can say is they sure are works of art. Well this morning I decided to pull back on the toggle and open it up to see what it looked like on the inside. And now I cannot get the gun to release no matter what I do. And I was afraid to do it to the other gun for fear I messed something up on the first one. Both of them are unloaded. I was hoping that someone would take pity on me and answer my post. Thank you for your time in answering.

12-09-2008, 10:14 AM	#2
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	Sounds like you tried to uncock it with the safety on.. are you sure it's off? __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

12-09-2008, 10:53 AM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	we all forget stuff now and then, and especially a new gun, you should have seen me trying to take apart the Radom I just got to ensure it had matching numbers so i could state that before selling. What a bear, until I figured it out and read take down on the net .... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-09-2008, 02:42 PM	#9
The Virginian User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Potomac Falls, Virginia USA Posts: 107 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Lugers are a bit daunting to those more familiar with the Colt/Browning type action on a pistol so, don't feel bad at all as it took me quite sometime to get comfortable with the Luger. __________________ All my C&R guns are shooters

12-09-2008, 04:08 PM	#15
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Len, that is why you should buy my Simson book MANY lugers were refurbed and also about 12,000 were newly made. The following things are to tell the difffernece in new and refurbed: 1. Acceptance and proofing on right (should be Simson markings) 2. Simson acceptance on almost all small parts 3. Either no suffix or "a" suffix on front of frame, no other suffixes are correct 4. Stock lug should be marked with either E6 E6 or E33 E33 (although one E6 E7 is known) Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-09-2008, 10:26 AM	#3
mountain guy User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Mr. Kane I have tried both with the safety off and on. I assume the word "Gesichert" exposed and showing means the safety is engaged? And thank you for your response. Len

12-09-2008, 10:32 AM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	pull the magazine out and then the toggle will release, once you pull it back slightly

12-09-2008, 10:51 AM	#5
mountain guy User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	You Mr. Tinker are a genius! That was it! Boy for many years of schooling I have never been too old (or young) to learn. I will remember this always!!! And thank you for your kindly information and not laughing too loud! Len

12-09-2008, 11:16 AM	#7
mountain guy User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I think the time has come for me to learn a little more about these guns and noticed you have written about them and particularly about the GI's coming home after WWII with their lugers. That certainly interests me because of what I know about the pair that I have. I will be going to that site to order one as my way of thanking you for your kindly reply and great help. AND to learn! I have only one book on Lugers right now. It is Luger Tips by Michael Reese II. It has the history of Luger production and LOTS of great pictures with some interesting information! Would you give me a definition of what is a Simson luger?

12-09-2008, 03:41 PM	#10
mountain guy User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	When I bought your book from the site this afternoon, https://www.simpsonltd.com/veteranbb.php I also looked up the Simson Lugers that were for sale. And yes they did command a premium and now I know why. Were most of these guns re-worked from older Lugers or were most of their production new lugers? And is there a way to know the difference? The site that sells your books have a great number of Lugers for sale with great pictures. I was wondering if you could educate me about one other noun that I do not understand: straw? Is that the color of the trigger and those metals? I guess that is very important to know when buying a Luger. Thank you again and I have enjoyed your posts.

12-09-2008, 03:51 PM	#11
mountain guy User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well Virginian I sure was dumbfounded to realize I had no idea what I was doing! The only thing I could think of was to go to a site where I could find people who KNEW lugers. I have belonged to a JEEP site for over a year and never posted anything so I am not great about asking for help. I try to dig it out myself from the site but this was so basic I was afraid after looking for an hour that I had to ask! And knowing the caliber of people who are regulars on a site like this, it took 30 more minutes to build up the nerve to do it. I thought I may have to wait for days to get an answer all the while not knowing if the gun STUCK in this position was good for it. What a morning THIS has been. Thanks for your comments!

12-09-2008, 03:56 PM	#12
mountain guy User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mr. von Vlimmeren. I thank you for that timely reply. That is the only thing on my lugers that I could think they meant by straw. Because it does look like the color of straw when you look at it. And this then determines if the pistol has been well used or lightly used I imagine. Now I know why they put stock in that color as well as the bluing for pricing purposes. I appreciate your help in this matter. Len

12-09-2008, 03:46 PM	#14
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Yep, straw is the name given to the gold color that can be observed on many luger's small parts (trigger, takedown lever, safety lever, ejector). The strawing is the result of heating those parts to a certain temperature, then letting them cool.

12-09-2008, 05:01 PM	#16
mountain guy User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I thought you might say that cause I had a dozen more questions to ask but thought I better just ask one! I may have to do just that and buy that book as well but wished you had written on a less VALUABLE subject! This type of Luger sounds like it would be the KEYSTONE of many collections! But I like the fact that I now know a source to contact if I find one. You have been the best help and I sure have enjoyed this post with you! Thanks again!

12-18-2008, 11:47 PM	#18
Went Blakely User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 231 Thanks: 4 Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts	Hehe that photo just made my week. Excellent! __________________ Went Blakely

12-20-2008, 09:54 PM	#19
mountain guy User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	WOW! The photo made my week too! Very very nice! Thank you so much for sharing! I know you must be very proud of your collection! Thanks Mr. Tinker! I will now not pass up any yard sales!

12-20-2008, 10:34 PM	#20
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	okay, didn't pick any up at yard sales, but in fact bought 3 or 4 from friends, the rest from folks telling me where they were (at a gun show, calling me, emailing me, etc). actually have sold two of the ones in the pictures, but bought another 3 to replace them :>) I'll try to do an up-to-date photo tomorrow if I remember ed