Early Luger Magazine?

rhmc24@yahoo.com · 11-27-2008, 10:46 AM

I'm don't really qualify as a luger collector. I have only one but a nice one 1920 9mm with markings on front of grip frame; in 1940 holster with 2 mags numbered to the gun. Condition vg/exc. I know it's history from a WW2 vet, since about 1950 and think is is right.

Question here is a magazine I got out of a scrapped holster, usual military type, brown leather, that had been cut for trigger access and long used for another gun. No markings on its back. The mag had apparently stayed in its place for years un-noticed because it was heavily coated with green vertigris.

The mag is excellent with 100% nickel, reddish hardwood base plug with 23 stamped in its middle, above and below that number are tiny stampings, like proof marks, crown above a figure, unable to ID, possibly a gothic letter. It shows some in & out use and a line on the cartridge pusher. That piece seems to be milled & has a high polish, almost mirror. It is apparently a pre-Nazi piece and wonder what its age might be.

Any info/comments appreciated.

Thanks

Ron Smith · 11-27-2008, 11:32 AM

Hi,

Welcome to the forum.

Your magazine is an Imperial (WWI) Erfurt. Erfurt was the Gov't arsenal , and ceased production in 1918. While not absolutley correct for a 1920 production Luger. Post WWI Lugers are commonly found with WWI magazines.

What are the markings on the grip strap of the Luger? Can you post some photos?

Ron

rhmc24@yahoo.com · 11-28-2008, 12:03 PM

Thanks for the 1918 Erfurt info. This magazine is an unrelated piece.

My Luger with DWM logo, has its two mags with same s/n as it. I heard somewhere it was probably re-dated 1920 post WW1 for whatever reason. Seems likely as date is not as heavily impressed as I have usually seen. I will post pix soon and give unit marks, which I recall have to do with Bavaria. rhmc24

Ron Smith · 11-28-2008, 12:26 PM

Is 1920 the only date on the chamber, or is it a double date? If the only date is 1920, the serial number suffix (letter under SN) should be in the no suffix, a or b range. The proofs on the right side of the receiver will be "Dove" or an "Eagle" (looks more like a Buzzard) over ArA4 or WaA4. These are the proofs found on new 1920 production Lugers.

Ron

rhmc24@yahoo.com · 11-29-2008, 11:36 AM

Marking on the front grip frame: Pw.B. Marking on back of holster: DLU 1941 P.08 below is small Nazi eagle with tiny letters WaA641. The date 1920 is the only date. There are no letters below the s/n on the left side but there is a script 'a' below the barrel serial. On the right side are three impressions of spreadeagles (all the same) with what looks like A??4, the two between indistinct. Clear impressions but look carelessly done, die not verticle leaving faint on two and too deep on the other. Last two digits of s/n is on all visible parts and full serial is on both mags, aluminum base plugs. Straw is about 80%. Very little wear and no damage to grips. I was unsuccessful in uploading pictures. Tried via Internet Explorer and Firefox. Emailing pix usually works without problem.

From Ron's posting, looks like this is a new 1920 mfgr. Thanks

GerColctor · 11-29-2008, 06:36 PM

The number 1920 over the chamber is a Weimar property mark indicating the item is government property. It is not a production date. You apparently have an early police marked Luger. It may have a sear safety on the left top of the slide. "Pw.B" is Bavarian police.

Nice rig with 2 matching mags.

Joe

Ron Smith · 11-29-2008, 09:23 PM

Joe,

Sorry to disagree, but the 1920 is the production date. It's a 1920(production date) DWM in the 'a' suffix block. The proofs are WaA4 which indicates 1920 production , and it's a police issue.

The Pw.B grip marking stands for Polizeiwehr Bayern [Bavarian Police Defense Force].

The holster is probably a 1940 military issue, but could have been paired with the Luger during WWII. Many police lugers found their way into the Army before all was said and done.

Does the holster have a down strap with buckle [military], or up strap with a stud [police]?

Ron

rhmc24@yahoo.com · 12-02-2008, 06:10 AM

Holster is the buckle type. Altho I intend to keep it, what is it worth today to sell?

Edward Tinker · 12-02-2008, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhmc24@yahoo.com

Holster is the buckle type. Altho I intend to keep it, what is it worth today to sell?

Not unless we can see pictures.

Uploading pictures is a snap here, go to Reply to Thread, then choose Manage Attachments and then upload them 3 at a time.

Ed

rhmc24@yahoo.com · 12-04-2008, 10:05 AM

I can't seem to find "Reply to Thread" or "Manage Attachments" so I tried the "Insert Image" box likewise to no avail. As previously stated, the "Upload Photos" on home page brought up error message saying it couldn't find. Strange nothing worked here but I usually have no problem uploading or emailing pix. Any possible productive leads will be appreciated. Thanks.

Ron Wood · 12-04-2008, 10:23 AM

You might be more successful if you didn't look for "Reply to Thread" (which doesn't exist) and used "ADD REPLY" (which does exist).

Edward Tinker · 12-04-2008, 11:09 AM

Reply to Thread was the old forum, sorry.

DON'T use the QUICK REPLY feature, it is designed for 'quick" replies and advanced members.

USE the ADD REPLY. You can then Manage attachments, 3 at a time, then add another 3 etc if you desire.

Ed

rhmc24@yahoo.com · 12-04-2008, 05:38 PM

I never found anything related to 3 pictures. I just entered the 3separate URLs (DOS wise) as the best I could figure. Obviously this ain't gonna work. Thanx for trying.

Ron Wood · 12-04-2008, 06:19 PM

OK, after you clicked on "ADD REPLY" and got the new window did you scroll down and find "Manage Attachments" and click on that? If you did you would get a pop up window with three attachment blanks. Beside each blank position there is a "Browse" button that will allow you to go to the file on your computer that contains the image you want to post. After you have highlighed the file name of the image you want to post, click "Open" and that will place the image file name in the attachment blank. Then click "Upload" and the image will be included in your post. It takes a lot longer to explain it than to do it.

rhmc24@yahoo.com · 12-05-2008, 09:22 AM

I did it and maybe success this time. If these pix aren't good enuf I will do them again. New camera & not much experience with it.

rhmc24@yahoo.com · 12-05-2008, 09:33 AM

Looks like it worked! Sorry being such a nuisance & thanks for all your patience. All the more, since I'm not really a Luger collector. google me R.H. McCrory for info. Thanks!

Edward Tinker · 12-05-2008, 09:48 AM

R.H> looks like a nice 1920, worth around $900-$1200 (if all matching and no surprises; reblue, sewer pipe barrel, etc).

Ed

PS: Never a nuisance, thats why we are here to help, sorry I have not been very helpful in my replies, other things on my mind this week

rhmc24@yahoo.com · 12-05-2008, 04:50 PM

1920 9mm with markings on front of grip frame; in 1940 holster with 2 mags numbered to the gun. Bore is clean strong sharp rifling, not as bright as I would like. Last two digits of s/n is on all visible parts and full serial is on both mags, aluminum base plugs. Straw is about 80%. I know it's history from a WW2 vet, since about 1950 and think is is right.

GerColctor · 12-06-2008, 06:31 PM

Ron

Yor correct, this Luger was made in 1920, so it is the date, not a Weimar property stamp.

Joe

11-27-2008, 10:46 AM	#1
rhmc24@yahoo.com User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ardmore OK Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Early Luger Magazine? I'm don't really qualify as a luger collector. I have only one but a nice one 1920 9mm with markings on front of grip frame; in 1940 holster with 2 mags numbered to the gun. Condition vg/exc. I know it's history from a WW2 vet, since about 1950 and think is is right. Question here is a magazine I got out of a scrapped holster, usual military type, brown leather, that had been cut for trigger access and long used for another gun. No markings on its back. The mag had apparently stayed in its place for years un-noticed because it was heavily coated with green vertigris. The mag is excellent with 100% nickel, reddish hardwood base plug with 23 stamped in its middle, above and below that number are tiny stampings, like proof marks, crown above a figure, unable to ID, possibly a gothic letter. It shows some in & out use and a line on the cartridge pusher. That piece seems to be milled & has a high polish, almost mirror. It is apparently a pre-Nazi piece and wonder what its age might be. Any info/comments appreciated. Thanks

11-27-2008, 11:32 AM	#2
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Hi, Welcome to the forum. Your magazine is an Imperial (WWI) Erfurt. Erfurt was the Gov't arsenal , and ceased production in 1918. While not absolutley correct for a 1920 production Luger. Post WWI Lugers are commonly found with WWI magazines. What are the markings on the grip strap of the Luger? Can you post some photos? Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

11-28-2008, 12:26 PM	#4
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Is 1920 the only date on the chamber, or is it a double date? If the only date is 1920, the serial number suffix (letter under SN) should be in the no suffix, a or b range. The proofs on the right side of the receiver will be "Dove" or an "Eagle" (looks more like a Buzzard) over ArA4 or WaA4. These are the proofs found on new 1920 production Lugers. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

11-29-2008, 11:36 AM	#5
rhmc24@yahoo.com User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ardmore OK Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Marking on the front grip frame: Pw.B. Marking on back of holster: DLU 1941 P.08 below is small Nazi eagle with tiny letters WaA641. The date 1920 is the only date. There are no letters below the s/n on the left side but there is a script 'a' below the barrel serial. On the right side are three impressions of spreadeagles (all the same) with what looks like A??4, the two between indistinct. Clear impressions but look carelessly done, die not verticle leaving faint on two and too deep on the other. Last two digits of s/n is on all visible parts and full serial is on both mags, aluminum base plugs. Straw is about 80%. Very little wear and no damage to grips. I was unsuccessful in uploading pictures. Tried via Internet Explorer and Firefox. Emailing pix usually works without problem. From Ron's posting, looks like this is a new 1920 mfgr. Thanks Last edited by rhmc24@yahoo.com; 11-29-2008 at 11:39 AM. Reason: to insert omission

11-29-2008, 06:36 PM	#6
GerColctor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: CT & FL Posts: 315 Thanks: 2 Thanked 48 Times in 31 Posts	The number 1920 over the chamber is a Weimar property mark indicating the item is government property. It is not a production date. You apparently have an early police marked Luger. It may have a sear safety on the left top of the slide. "Pw.B" is Bavarian police. Nice rig with 2 matching mags. Joe __________________ It is better to have lived a day as a tiger, then a thousand years as a lamb.

11-28-2008, 12:03 PM	#3
rhmc24@yahoo.com User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ardmore OK Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the 1918 Erfurt info. This magazine is an unrelated piece. My Luger with DWM logo, has its two mags with same s/n as it. I heard somewhere it was probably re-dated 1920 post WW1 for whatever reason. Seems likely as date is not as heavily impressed as I have usually seen. I will post pix soon and give unit marks, which I recall have to do with Bavaria. rhmc24

11-29-2008, 09:23 PM	#7
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Joe, Sorry to disagree, but the 1920 is the production date. It's a 1920(production date) DWM in the 'a' suffix block. The proofs are WaA4 which indicates 1920 production , and it's a police issue. The Pw.B grip marking stands for Polizeiwehr Bayern [Bavarian Police Defense Force]. The holster is probably a 1940 military issue, but could have been paired with the Luger during WWII. Many police lugers found their way into the Army before all was said and done. Does the holster have a down strap with buckle [military], or up strap with a stud [police]? Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said... Last edited by Ron Smith; 11-30-2008 at 09:23 AM.

12-02-2008, 06:10 AM	#8
rhmc24@yahoo.com User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ardmore OK Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Holster is the buckle type. Altho I intend to keep it, what is it worth today to sell? Last edited by rhmc24@yahoo.com; 12-02-2008 at 06:16 AM. Reason: Insert omission

12-04-2008, 10:05 AM	#10
rhmc24@yahoo.com User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ardmore OK Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I can't seem to find "Reply to Thread" or "Manage Attachments" so I tried the "Insert Image" box likewise to no avail. As previously stated, the "Upload Photos" on home page brought up error message saying it couldn't find. Strange nothing worked here but I usually have no problem uploading or emailing pix. Any possible productive leads will be appreciated. Thanks.

12-04-2008, 10:23 AM	#11
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,256 Times in 1,724 Posts	You might be more successful if you didn't look for "Reply to Thread" (which doesn't exist) and used "ADD REPLY" (which does exist). __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-04-2008, 11:09 AM	#12
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Reply to Thread was the old forum, sorry. DON'T use the QUICK REPLY feature, it is designed for 'quick" replies and advanced members. USE the ADD REPLY. You can then Manage attachments, 3 at a time, then add another 3 etc if you desire. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-04-2008, 05:38 PM	#13
rhmc24@yahoo.com User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ardmore OK Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I never found anything related to 3 pictures. I just entered the 3separate URLs (DOS wise) as the best I could figure. Obviously this ain't gonna work. Thanx for trying. Last edited by rhmc24@yahoo.com; 12-04-2008 at 05:41 PM. Reason: add info

12-04-2008, 06:19 PM	#14
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,256 Times in 1,724 Posts	OK, after you clicked on "ADD REPLY" and got the new window did you scroll down and find "Manage Attachments" and click on that? If you did you would get a pop up window with three attachment blanks. Beside each blank position there is a "Browse" button that will allow you to go to the file on your computer that contains the image you want to post. After you have highlighed the file name of the image you want to post, click "Open" and that will place the image file name in the attachment blank. Then click "Upload" and the image will be included in your post. It takes a lot longer to explain it than to do it. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-05-2008, 09:22 AM	#15
rhmc24@yahoo.com User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ardmore OK Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Pix re Early Luger Mag x2 I did it and maybe success this time. If these pix aren't good enuf I will do them again. New camera & not much experience with it. Attached Thumbnails

12-05-2008, 09:33 AM	#16
rhmc24@yahoo.com User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ardmore OK Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Looks like it worked! Sorry being such a nuisance & thanks for all your patience. All the more, since I'm not really a Luger collector. google me R.H. McCrory for info. Thanks!

12-05-2008, 09:48 AM	#17
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	R.H> looks like a nice 1920, worth around $900-$1200 (if all matching and no surprises; reblue, sewer pipe barrel, etc). Ed PS: Never a nuisance, thats why we are here to help, sorry I have not been very helpful in my replies, other things on my mind this week __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-05-2008, 04:50 PM	#18
rhmc24@yahoo.com User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ardmore OK Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1920 9mm with markings on front of grip frame; in 1940 holster with 2 mags numbered to the gun. Bore is clean strong sharp rifling, not as bright as I would like. Last two digits of s/n is on all visible parts and full serial is on both mags, aluminum base plugs. Straw is about 80%. I know it's history from a WW2 vet, since about 1950 and think is is right.

12-06-2008, 06:31 PM	#19
GerColctor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: CT & FL Posts: 315 Thanks: 2 Thanked 48 Times in 31 Posts	Ron Yor correct, this Luger was made in 1920, so it is the date, not a Weimar property stamp. Joe __________________ It is better to have lived a day as a tiger, then a thousand years as a lamb.