unit markings "P.W.3341" and "staghorn" acceptance stamp

[farmertom]

Hello,
I do not collect Lugers in the first place, but found this interesting holster on a militaria show, and had to buy it.
Maker marked on the back: J??Eckart Ulm a/D. no date
Unit mark on the flap: P.W. 3341
Acceptance stamp on the flap: "staghorn" with what seems to be a "H" underneath.
I only know the "staghorn" acceptance stamp from early G98 rifles manufactured by Mauser/Oberndorf for the Wuerttemberg Army.

Early Wuerttemberg Police holster??
Hope the photo will help identifying it.
Thanks
farmertom

[Ron Smith]

Hi Tom,

I thought that someone would have replied by now. P.W. translates to
Westfalen police school.

The number is a property inventory number.

The Stag horn is an Ulm acceptance / proof mark that I have only seen on post war Walther pistols. Maybe someone else can shed some light on it being on a holster.

A belated welcome to the forum.

Ron

[GerColctor]

Welcome

Imperial and Weimar unit marks were not placed on the outside flap of a Luger holster. Imperial unit marks were on the inside of the flap and the Weimar unit marks were on the front of the body of the holster, near the opening, covered by the flap when buckled.

Police marks were found on the back of the holster, to the right of the belt loops.

P indicates a police school. Never seen a unit mark on the outside of the flap, but have not seen everything.

Joe

[George Anderson]

What kind of holster is it, Luger, Hi Power, what? How about photos of the entire piece front and back? It could be post war police.

[farmertom]

Hello,
attached the front, rear view photos, plus a close up of the manufacturer stamp.

Sorry, but why should be a Luger holster manufactured and accepted in Ulm (Wuerttemberg), be sold and issued in Westfalen? Does not make sense to me. And...
I could not find any information on Wuerttemberg Police School markings.

best regards and good collecting
Tom

[farmertom]

rear view

[farmertom]

manufacturer stamp

[farmertom]

if you do not succeed, try it again....
the rear view

[Ron Smith]

Tom,

Where the holster was made doesn't really have anything to do with where or to what unit it was issued. It's merely the location of the maker.

Ron

[Vlim]

I once had a P.W. marked P08 which was a bit worn, as it had been set on fire, then buried for 60+ years.

[Don M]

Tom,

P.W. was the abbreviation specified in the 1922 Prussian Schupo marking order for the Police School for the province of Westfalen that was located in M�¼nster. However, many of the observed markings (including yours) are puzzling in that they have weapon numbers that are much larger than any of those of other Prussian police schools. None of the Lugers with this marking are reported to have sear safeties, suggesting they were no longer in police service by 1934. It raises the possibility that this school was used to stockpile pistols that were later transferred to the Army. The fact that your holster has a military style closure supports this.

Incidentally, yours is the largest property number I have yet seen for this school.

[farmertom]

Don,
Thank you very much! Great information.
Any idea concerning the stag horn acceptance stamp?
I only know this stamp on early Mauser G98 rifles manufactured for Wuerttemberg and on some bayonets. To include a capured Russian bayonet for the 91/30 rifle. To me, it seems that the stag horn stamp was some kind of property marking for the state of Wuerttemberg.
What do you think about the following idea?
This holster was manufactured for, and accepted by the state of Wuerttemberg for the Army (pre WWI). After WWI it was issued at the Police School of Westfalen / or Wuerttemberg????
Do you have any information on a Police School in the state of Wuerttemberg?
To accept the idea that Wuerttemberg did not have it's own Police School is very difficult for me.
What do you think?
best regards and good collecting
Tom

[Don M]

Tom, I really can't add much to what I've already said. I agree that the holster was probably manufactured for use by the German Imperial Army, perhaps a W�¼rttemburg unit, and later issued to the Westfalen police school at M�¼nster. As to your questions about a police school in W�¼rttemburg, Angolia & Taylor state on p. 122 of Uniforms, Organization & History of the German Police, Vol. I, "In W�¼rttemburg two police training battalions (Polizeischulabteilungen) were formed from the Schupo replacement depot (Polizeiersatzdepot) and preparatory school (Polizeivorschule)." So, yes, W�¼rttemburg had its own police school(s). I don't think this holster belonged to them, however.

[Don M]

Tom,

I need to modify what I have said. I have been re-researching the Prussian police schools and their markings and now suspect that P.W. markings with weapon numbers over about 800 (and perhaps lower) are not from the Polizeischule Westfalen. Your original hunch that this marking is from W�¼rttemburg may be correct. The marking may stand for Polizei W�¼rttemburg. The numbers are much too large for a police school so these may have belonged to the Schupo of W�¼rttemburg.