Extractor probs

Fabian23 · 09-25-2006, 05:10 AM

I have smoothed out nearly all the teething problems of my luger with new mags and a fresh set of gun springs and mag springs. The stove pipe feeding problem is a thing of the past, but the occasional extraction failure remains.

I replaced the old spring with a new one from Wolff, it is a little shorter and stiffer than the one I took out but it is still reasonably easy to thumb up the extractor manually. The claw on the extractor looks fine. So is the extractor the problem or the spring the problem?

I'm betting on the spring being too soft, but where do I get a stiffer one than the one provided by Wolff?

Vlim · 09-25-2006, 06:47 AM

Hi,

The problem can also be a matter of cartridge case length. Cartridge gets pushed into the chamber too deeply, the extractor can't hook behind the case rim and slips over it during recoil, leaving the case in the chamber.

Fabian23 · 09-25-2006, 07:31 AM

I am using standard S&B 115gr.

I can go through a few mag fulls with no problem but then have 2 or 3 extraction failures in the next mag. I pull out the mag and clear the round trying to feed and the action snaps forward into battery, I pull the toggle back and the casing is extracted smoothly.

John Sabato · 09-25-2006, 08:35 AM

Try polishing the chamber with 600 grit crocus cloth spinning lightly on a split wooden dowel in a hand held electric drill... there may be a rough spot that holds the cartridge tightly when it is dirty after a few magazines... gently move the dowel in and out during the spinning process... and make sure that the bore and chamber and lightly lubricated by running an oily patch down the bore before shooting...

I would also recommend you try some Winchester 115 gr. ammo... to see if the change makes a difference.

Let us know if this helps out...

Dwight Gruber · 09-25-2006, 11:31 AM

Fabian,

I'd like to add a caution to my friend John Sabato's chamber-polishing suggestion. An original 9mm chamber is not a simple boring, but a complex machining of a cylindrical part and a minutely smaller conical part, including a slight, but visible, step between the two. Simply polishing the chamber as he suggests may not reach the entire surface, and may alter these relationships. Care must be taken also in the area of the chamber mouth, as this is where the cartridge head-spaces.

--Dwight

John Sabato · 09-25-2006, 11:41 AM

Dwight, thanks for the caution to all who might use my suggestion, but unless there was a very tight fit between the dowel and the chamber, little if any metal is removed by 600 grit crocus cloth...

This weight grit is nearly in the spectrum of jewelers polish, and a 10 or 20 second stint with a piece of this not very abrasive cloth spinning at electric drill speeds should cause no harm to any chamber dimensions, but merely remove any stubborn shooting residue and possibly identify any chamber burrs that could compete with extraction of a fired case...

I doubt it would even round any sharp edges it might find while spinning... it should leave behind a mirror type finish where it has been used.

Any gritty powder residue left after this process should be well cleaned using ordinary gun cleaning solvents before applying a new coat of shooting lubrication to the surfaces.

Fabian23 · 09-25-2006, 12:06 PM

First I'd need to find some of that fine cloth....The most I have found is 400 grit.

The problem seems not to be a result of fouling after a few mags. I can have problems with my first mag of the day, then go through a perfect mag or two, then have another few jams, and then carry on shooting smoothly. It is totally random, but it will happen at least once per shooting session (50 rnds).

I would love to use it for the military pistol shoots here, which involve letting loose 6 shots in ever shorter number of seconds, but it is useless until I have reliability. By the time I had cleared the chamber the stage would be over

John Sabato · 09-25-2006, 09:31 PM

I was mistaken about the grit level it is 800 not 600... even finer than I remembered...

Unfortuately, it must be purchased in large quantities at the sources I found... here is one:

http://www.doityourself.com/invt/0545186

but maybe you can use a search engine and find smaller quantities available... because it is cloth backed instead of paper, it lasts a very long time, and as you use it, the smoothing qualities get better and better on the used sheets....

Lugerdoc · 09-26-2006, 09:32 AM

Fabian, The average military luger that is now over 50 years old, will probably not meet your 100% requirements without tuning by an expert like John Martz and then may require a new barrel and other parts. To simplify your search, I'd recomment a more forgiving, more modern design. TH

Fabian23 · 09-26-2006, 10:26 AM

Don't worry Doc, I'm not asking for 100% reliability. I don't have to use it for competitions, I have other more capable firearms, but I'd like to use the Luger for fun.

09-25-2006, 05:10 AM	#1
Fabian23 User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Canton Bern Posts: 68 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Extractor probs I have smoothed out nearly all the teething problems of my luger with new mags and a fresh set of gun springs and mag springs. The stove pipe feeding problem is a thing of the past, but the occasional extraction failure remains. I replaced the old spring with a new one from Wolff, it is a little shorter and stiffer than the one I took out but it is still reasonably easy to thumb up the extractor manually. The claw on the extractor looks fine. So is the extractor the problem or the spring the problem? I'm betting on the spring being too soft, but where do I get a stiffer one than the one provided by Wolff?

09-25-2006, 07:31 AM	#3
Fabian23 User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Canton Bern Posts: 68 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ammo I am using standard S&B 115gr. I can go through a few mag fulls with no problem but then have 2 or 3 extraction failures in the next mag. I pull out the mag and clear the round trying to feed and the action snaps forward into battery, I pull the toggle back and the casing is extracted smoothly.

09-25-2006, 08:35 AM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Try polishing the chamber with 600 grit crocus cloth spinning lightly on a split wooden dowel in a hand held electric drill... there may be a rough spot that holds the cartridge tightly when it is dirty after a few magazines... gently move the dowel in and out during the spinning process... and make sure that the bore and chamber and lightly lubricated by running an oily patch down the bore before shooting... I would also recommend you try some Winchester 115 gr. ammo... to see if the change makes a difference. Let us know if this helps out... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-25-2006, 11:41 AM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Dwight, thanks for the caution to all who might use my suggestion, but unless there was a very tight fit between the dowel and the chamber, little if any metal is removed by 600 grit crocus cloth... This weight grit is nearly in the spectrum of jewelers polish, and a 10 or 20 second stint with a piece of this not very abrasive cloth spinning at electric drill speeds should cause no harm to any chamber dimensions, but merely remove any stubborn shooting residue and possibly identify any chamber burrs that could compete with extraction of a fired case... I doubt it would even round any sharp edges it might find while spinning... it should leave behind a mirror type finish where it has been used. Any gritty powder residue left after this process should be well cleaned using ordinary gun cleaning solvents before applying a new coat of shooting lubrication to the surfaces. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-25-2006, 09:31 PM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	I was mistaken about the grit level it is 800 not 600... even finer than I remembered... Unfortuately, it must be purchased in large quantities at the sources I found... here is one: http://www.doityourself.com/invt/0545186 but maybe you can use a search engine and find smaller quantities available... because it is cloth backed instead of paper, it lasts a very long time, and as you use it, the smoothing qualities get better and better on the used sheets.... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-25-2006, 06:47 AM	#2
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi, The problem can also be a matter of cartridge case length. Cartridge gets pushed into the chamber too deeply, the extractor can't hook behind the case rim and slips over it during recoil, leaving the case in the chamber.

09-25-2006, 11:31 AM	#5
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Fabian, I'd like to add a caution to my friend John Sabato's chamber-polishing suggestion. An original 9mm chamber is not a simple boring, but a complex machining of a cylindrical part and a minutely smaller conical part, including a slight, but visible, step between the two. Simply polishing the chamber as he suggests may not reach the entire surface, and may alter these relationships. Care must be taken also in the area of the chamber mouth, as this is where the cartridge head-spaces. --Dwight

09-25-2006, 12:06 PM	#7
Fabian23 User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Canton Bern Posts: 68 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	First I'd need to find some of that fine cloth....The most I have found is 400 grit. The problem seems not to be a result of fouling after a few mags. I can have problems with my first mag of the day, then go through a perfect mag or two, then have another few jams, and then carry on shooting smoothly. It is totally random, but it will happen at least once per shooting session (50 rnds). I would love to use it for the military pistol shoots here, which involve letting loose 6 shots in ever shorter number of seconds, but it is useless until I have reliability. By the time I had cleared the chamber the stage would be over

09-26-2006, 09:32 AM	#9
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Fabian, The average military luger that is now over 50 years old, will probably not meet your 100% requirements without tuning by an expert like John Martz and then may require a new barrel and other parts. To simplify your search, I'd recomment a more forgiving, more modern design. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

09-26-2006, 10:26 AM	#10
Fabian23 User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Canton Bern Posts: 68 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Don't worry Doc, I'm not asking for 100% reliability. I don't have to use it for competitions, I have other more capable firearms, but I'd like to use the Luger for fun.