Navy Rear Sights...

Pete Ebbink · 07-03-2006, 11:45 AM

This guy has 2 Navy rear sights and even some "new" Navy barrels on auction on e-Bay :

http://cgi.ebay.com/Naval-Rear-Sight...QQcmdZViewItem

Luke · 07-03-2006, 11:55 AM

Watch out for another wave of "mint" Navy Lugers. :-(

George Anderson · 07-03-2006, 12:24 PM

Note that he offers professional courtesy of hiding the buyer's identity.

Ron Smith · 07-03-2006, 10:40 PM

I wonder if he offers a choice of serial numbers?

Parabellus · 07-03-2006, 11:02 PM

The term 'force match': if I get the term correctly, does it apply to matching 2-digit #s from different guns' parts, changing the stamped numbers, or both?
I recently read a post from a new user who asked if he could get a matching part for his Luger.

Russell

Sieger · 07-03-2006, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ron Smith
I wonder if he offers a choice of serial numbers?

Ron:

Let's contact him an see. The sight does seem to have a number on it, though that doesn't really mean a thing.

Sieger

Dwight Gruber · 07-04-2006, 12:08 AM

Russel,

Matching a 2-digit part from another gun is force-matching.

Changing the stamped number is boosting.

--Dwight

Parabellus · 07-04-2006, 12:13 AM

Thanks Dwight.

Russell

Edward Tinker · 07-04-2006, 12:26 AM

Russell, this is an issue I think many folks have problems with and temptation. They have an all matching gun and the sideplate or firing pin is mismatched...

Is it wrong to "match" it up?

Would I do it?

Should you?

Only your conscious can decide what is right and what is wrong...

Ed

Parabellus · 07-04-2006, 01:09 AM

Ed,

No doubt in my mind about that. Fortunately both my Lugers are matching but the mags. I have thought about replacing the missing sear safety on my 1920 Commercial-Police.

Dwight, Ron, Pete, et al,

Nevertheless, assembling a parts-Navy for fun, not profit, is intriguing.
Are there serious issues about fitting the parts. I can't imagine the barrel would be easy to remove/replace. Probably a job for KrausewerK.
I see the bid is holding at $100.00 for the rear toggle. Is it worth much more than that?

Russell

Edward Tinker · 07-04-2006, 01:20 AM

I bet it goes up about $125 more, maybe more.

I have a 6 inch reblue sitting next to teh bed, have not shot it yet, want to go shooting with me? I am almost next door, in New Hampshire

Ed

Parabellus · 07-04-2006, 02:40 AM

I'd be proud to, Ed.
See you at the range tomorrow.

To all you great Americans on LugerForum,
Have a glorious Independence Day.

To all you others around the world,
Wish you were here.....legally.

God bless the brave men and women defending our freedom.

Russell

Ron Smith · 07-04-2006, 10:36 AM

Dwight, Ron, Pete, et al,

Nevertheless, assembling a parts-Navy for fun, not profit, is intriguing.
Are there serious issues about fitting the parts. I can't imagine the barrel would be easy to remove/replace. Probably a job for KrausewerK.
I see the bid is holding at $100.00 for the rear toggle. Is it worth much more than that?

Russell,

There's nothing wrong with assembling a Navy Luger, as long as it's not done to purposely "boost or deceive". In other words, to fake it to the detail that it could be used to defraud someone.

Here are some photos of a very rare Navy Luger that I have in my collection. Probably the only one in existance. All matching numbers including the magazine.

Made with a "fine tune" front sight. "Extremely rare".

Probably the rarest of all Navys. Made in 1937 by Mauser. That is with the help of an expert pistolsmith.

A 1937/S42 Mauser with an original Navy rear sight , a turned down and shortened Artillery barrel. All serial numbers were force matched or boosted ,if you prefer.

I have always wanted a Navy Luger, but couldn't justify spending the money or going through the headache of avoiding a "Fake". And certainly would not consider shooting a $3500+ collector piece.

So, I bought this one from Richie Shavel aka "the gunman" for less than half of what a low-end original would have cost. And I can and do shoot it on a regular basis. It is extremely accurate out to 200+ yards. I have never regretted buying it from Richie. And probably would be one out of my collection that I would not sell, should the need arise. If I could own only one Luger, this would be the one.

Ron

HerbZ · 07-04-2006, 11:28 AM

Ron,

Just one fantastic pistol you have there! That's just about everything I could ever want from one Luger too! I've all the respect in the world for knowledgeable collectors of purely original Lugers. (Hey, someone has to do it.) But I'd rather have one good Luger to shoot as much as I would like, than two that I'd be a disrespectful fool to fire them.

I'm new to the finer points of Lugers, but I'm already getting the definite impression that no other firearm in the history of the world has had more fakers, forgers, frauds, and phonies involved with them. It's probably the same way with Stradivarius violins or anything else of great quality that is no longer made.

A happy 4th of July to all concerned (put down the brew before picking up a match)!

HerbZ

P.S. I like your idea of using a coarse neutral colored cloth like burlap for a background in your photographs.

Parabellus · 07-04-2006, 11:58 AM

Ron,

What a supurb piece of workmanship! I especially like the fine tune front sight which my Arty lacks. Thanks for sharing it here.
Just one question, though. Can you legally attach a repro Navy stock?

Russell

Pete Ebbink · 07-04-2006, 12:30 PM

Heb Z,

I use a piece of raw silk for my photo backgrounds for four reasons :

1. Folks always know the gun or holster is mine because it is on my signature piece of fabric I have used for 4 years now on the forum.

2. It eliminates the possibility of any glare from a hard back ground surface making its way into the photo.

3. Mine is a natural light brown color, as well; as I think it is a tasteful background to the colors on a luger.

4. I can color-correct the photo with eidting software so I get the color of the fabric just right. When I do this, the color of the luger is as close to reality as possible.

Ron Smith · 07-04-2006, 12:34 PM

Herb,

Thanks! I like the burlap background. I think that it adds a bit of the old mystique to the pistols. Kind of the "Old World" Trap steamer, African Queen flavor.

Russell,

I won't say for certain, but I don't think anyone would know the specific legalities if they ever caught me with a repro stock attached. It is accurate....

If it came down to it? I suppose there are some anal "enforcement" types who would send me to the slam for such a blatant and dastardly violation of firearms laws.

But, "They'll never take me alive I tell ya!! TOP O THE WORLD MA....!!!"

Ron

Big Norm · 07-05-2006, 08:06 PM

My interpretation of adding a repro stock to a made up navy or artillery is that it would be illegal in the USA. There is a recent thread on that in this section.

Past navy rear toggles have gone for $400.

Time to repost the difference between the counterfeit navy rear sight and the original navy rear sight. I'll have to dig to find that one. I think I have it somewhere in my computer files.
Big Norm

John Sabato · 07-06-2006, 07:53 AM

Hey Norm, I don't have the time at the moment but I think I put together a real versus repro Navy rear toggle photo essay in the Members Gallery... If anyone has the time, could you check that out and let me know here...

If it is not in the gallery, then I will have to dig up those photos out of my archive and see If I can put one together...

Ron Wood · 07-06-2006, 10:06 AM

John's Member Gallery presentation is still there, but in the meantime here is a quick comparison shot.

07-03-2006, 11:45 AM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Navy Rear Sights... This guy has 2 Navy rear sights and even some "new" Navy barrels on auction on e-Bay : http://cgi.ebay.com/Naval-Rear-Sight...QQcmdZViewItem

07-03-2006, 11:55 AM	#2
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Watch out for another wave of "mint" Navy Lugers. :-( __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

07-03-2006, 10:40 PM	#4
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	I wonder if he offers a choice of serial numbers? __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

07-03-2006, 11:02 PM	#5
Parabellus User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: SF Bay Posts: 195 Thanks: 16 Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts	The term 'force match': if I get the term correctly, does it apply to matching 2-digit #s from different guns' parts, changing the stamped numbers, or both? I recently read a post from a new user who asked if he could get a matching part for his Luger. Russell __________________

07-04-2006, 12:13 AM	#8
Parabellus User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: SF Bay Posts: 195 Thanks: 16 Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts	Thanks Dwight. Russell __________________

07-03-2006, 12:24 PM	#3
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,530 Times in 787 Posts	Note that he offers professional courtesy of hiding the buyer's identity.

07-04-2006, 12:08 AM	#7
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,903 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,321 Times in 432 Posts	Russel, Matching a 2-digit part from another gun is force-matching. Changing the stamped number is boosting. --Dwight

07-04-2006, 12:26 AM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,941 Thanks: 2,039 Thanked 4,547 Times in 2,100 Posts	Russell, this is an issue I think many folks have problems with and temptation. They have an all matching gun and the sideplate or firing pin is mismatched... Is it wrong to "match" it up? Would I do it? Should you? Only your conscious can decide what is right and what is wrong... Ed

07-04-2006, 01:09 AM	#10
Parabellus User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: SF Bay Posts: 195 Thanks: 16 Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts	Ed, No doubt in my mind about that. Fortunately both my Lugers are matching but the mags. I have thought about replacing the missing sear safety on my 1920 Commercial-Police. Dwight, Ron, Pete, et al, Nevertheless, assembling a parts-Navy for fun, not profit, is intriguing. Are there serious issues about fitting the parts. I can't imagine the barrel would be easy to remove/replace. Probably a job for KrausewerK. I see the bid is holding at $100.00 for the rear toggle. Is it worth much more than that? Russell

07-04-2006, 01:20 AM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,941 Thanks: 2,039 Thanked 4,547 Times in 2,100 Posts	I bet it goes up about $125 more, maybe more. I have a 6 inch reblue sitting next to teh bed, have not shot it yet, want to go shooting with me? I am almost next door, in New Hampshire Ed

07-04-2006, 02:40 AM	#12
Parabellus User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: SF Bay Posts: 195 Thanks: 16 Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts	I'd be proud to, Ed. See you at the range tomorrow. To all you great Americans on LugerForum, Have a glorious Independence Day. To all you others around the world, Wish you were here.....legally. God bless the brave men and women defending our freedom. Russell

07-04-2006, 10:36 AM	#13
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Dwight, Ron, Pete, et al, Nevertheless, assembling a parts-Navy for fun, not profit, is intriguing. Are there serious issues about fitting the parts. I can't imagine the barrel would be easy to remove/replace. Probably a job for KrausewerK. I see the bid is holding at $100.00 for the rear toggle. Is it worth much more than that? Russell, There's nothing wrong with assembling a Navy Luger, as long as it's not done to purposely "boost or deceive". In other words, to fake it to the detail that it could be used to defraud someone. Here are some photos of a very rare Navy Luger that I have in my collection. Probably the only one in existance. All matching numbers including the magazine. Made with a "fine tune" front sight. "Extremely rare". Probably the rarest of all Navys. Made in 1937 by Mauser. That is with the help of an expert pistolsmith. A 1937/S42 Mauser with an original Navy rear sight , a turned down and shortened Artillery barrel. All serial numbers were force matched or boosted ,if you prefer. I have always wanted a Navy Luger, but couldn't justify spending the money or going through the headache of avoiding a "Fake". And certainly would not consider shooting a $3500+ collector piece. So, I bought this one from Richie Shavel aka "the gunman" for less than half of what a low-end original would have cost. And I can and do shoot it on a regular basis. It is extremely accurate out to 200+ yards. I have never regretted buying it from Richie. And probably would be one out of my collection that I would not sell, should the need arise. If I could own only one Luger, this would be the one. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

07-04-2006, 11:28 AM	#14
HerbZ User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 128 Thanks: 20 Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts	Ron, Just one fantastic pistol you have there! That's just about everything I could ever want from one Luger too! I've all the respect in the world for knowledgeable collectors of purely original Lugers. (Hey, someone has to do it.) But I'd rather have one good Luger to shoot as much as I would like, than two that I'd be a disrespectful fool to fire them. I'm new to the finer points of Lugers, but I'm already getting the definite impression that no other firearm in the history of the world has had more fakers, forgers, frauds, and phonies involved with them. It's probably the same way with Stradivarius violins or anything else of great quality that is no longer made. A happy 4th of July to all concerned (put down the brew before picking up a match)! HerbZ P.S. I like your idea of using a coarse neutral colored cloth like burlap for a background in your photographs. __________________ "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." Mark Twain

07-04-2006, 11:58 AM	#15
Parabellus User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: SF Bay Posts: 195 Thanks: 16 Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts	Ron, What a supurb piece of workmanship! I especially like the fine tune front sight which my Arty lacks. Thanks for sharing it here. Just one question, though. Can you legally attach a repro Navy stock? Russell __________________

07-04-2006, 12:30 PM	#16
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Heb Z, I use a piece of raw silk for my photo backgrounds for four reasons : 1. Folks always know the gun or holster is mine because it is on my signature piece of fabric I have used for 4 years now on the forum. 2. It eliminates the possibility of any glare from a hard back ground surface making its way into the photo. 3. Mine is a natural light brown color, as well; as I think it is a tasteful background to the colors on a luger. 4. I can color-correct the photo with eidting software so I get the color of the fabric just right. When I do this, the color of the luger is as close to reality as possible.

07-04-2006, 12:34 PM	#17
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Herb, Thanks! I like the burlap background. I think that it adds a bit of the old mystique to the pistols. Kind of the "Old World" Trap steamer, African Queen flavor. Russell, I won't say for certain, but I don't think anyone would know the specific legalities if they ever caught me with a repro stock attached. It is accurate.... If it came down to it? I suppose there are some anal "enforcement" types who would send me to the slam for such a blatant and dastardly violation of firearms laws. But, "They'll never take me alive I tell ya!! TOP O THE WORLD MA....!!!" Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

07-05-2006, 08:06 PM	#18
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	My interpretation of adding a repro stock to a made up navy or artillery is that it would be illegal in the USA. There is a recent thread on that in this section. Past navy rear toggles have gone for $400. Time to repost the difference between the counterfeit navy rear sight and the original navy rear sight. I'll have to dig to find that one. I think I have it somewhere in my computer files. Big Norm

07-06-2006, 07:53 AM	#19
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Hey Norm, I don't have the time at the moment but I think I put together a real versus repro Navy rear toggle photo essay in the Members Gallery... If anyone has the time, could you check that out and let me know here... If it is not in the gallery, then I will have to dig up those photos out of my archive and see If I can put one together... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-06-2006, 10:06 AM	#20
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,091 Thanked 5,180 Times in 1,703 Posts	John's Member Gallery presentation is still there, but in the meantime here is a quick comparison shot. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction