Sniper Artillery

[Mike B]

Hi Guys,
A fellow Luger collector sent me this picture today. I found it very interesting, so I thought I would share it with the forum. He was visiting another collector in hopes of capitalizing on a rumor of a collection being for sale. He found the collection, but has not yet informed me of any money changing hands. This is one of the Lugers in the collection. Any comments???

Mike

[George Anderson]

Nothing more than a curiosity. While most likely an original LP08, it is probably a US gun enthusiast's enterprise put together in the years following WWII. If it is truly a navy job as indicated on the index card it is a real shame because the junk added to it destroyed most of the original value. Let your friend know that a wire skeleton stock attached to his pistol is likely to get him thrown into the "slammer".

[Pete Ebbink]

Looks like a Man-From-UNCLE weapon from the 1960's TV series...

[Parabellus]

This answers (sort of) a question that came to my mind. Has anyone put a scope on a Luger and for what purpose? I could see it in the case of a long carbine for example. Has anyone seen or heard of such an application for real?

Russell

[Navy]

Russell,

Over the years I have encountered some Lugers that were tapped for addition of scope mounts/extra micrometer sights. Most were bubba jobs done on 1920 era guns, but occasionally there was a professional job. Normally these were encountered in pawn shops/small gun shops in fairly out of the way places, so I always assumed they were someone's hunting ensemble.

Tom A

[John Sabato]

I agree with George, if a wire stock is used with this pistol it is absolutely illegal under the NFA unless this gun has been registered with the ATF as a short barreled rifle and the $200 tax has been paid... I would not spend any time with the owner of this gun unless I has seen the paperwork. There are also no "grandfathered" guns that are exempt from this act... only specific C&R exemptions... this is a home "gunsmith" or machinest project... nothing more.

Mere possession of this gun with a wire stock would be a federal felony.

[Parabellus]

Thank you Tom,

This kind of alteration is interesting. How about a laser sight? Has anyone had the audacity to suggest that? I can imagine Georg Luger and several generations of master craftsmen turning in their graves.

John,

What about the legality of adding scopes or lasers to certain kinds of weapons? Can one get into trouble there as with unauthorized stocks?

No. I'm not planning to butcher my Weimar Police Luger nor the nicely restored LP08 that I expect to be sharing here at the end of the week. I have utmost respect for original design.

Russell

[John Sabato]

I know of no legal restrictions on the types of sighting devices that can be used... but using the correct stock to configure a particular C&R model Luger is not a negotiable topic... the NFA and the ATF are what they are... Law and regulatory agency...

Some weird one-off configuration Luger is not the hill I want to die on or lose my right to own firearms over...

regarding the use of alternative technology sights... I am wary of the ability of high tech sights to absorb the g-force abuse riding the moving barrel/receiver would dish out. Those toggle knob impacts and slamming breech bolt stops would probably knock the recticle out of most scopes in a box or two of ammo.

[Pete Ebbink]

Those Man-From-UNCLE guys did like their lugers :

[Pete Ebbink]

This German gun smith seems to have worked out "scoping" a luger :

http://www.waffen-werle.de/index.htm

Imagine the sort of trouble one would get into showing up at a USA gun range with this little jewel ??? It sure seems like it would be great fun to shoot, though.

[Ron Smith]

I'm not so sure that I would pass this off as a "Bubba Job". The scope is period correct. The work appears to be very proffessionaly done.

Until I could see it hands-on or see much better photos. I'm not so sure that it may not be original. I like it. If it were to come up for sale? I wouldn't hesitate, at the right price.





Just my opinion....

[John Sabato]

pete. the top photo in your Man From U.N.C.L.E. series is a standard issue P-38 UNCLE special... not a Luger... however as your bottom photo shows, the Luger made many an appearance... usually as a villan's gun...

[mauro]

Hello fellows,
This Luger Arty customization was made by W. Aulke in Germany around 1970.
In the attached photo a scan from my copy of DWJ dated September 1971.
We already discuss this kind of customization around one year ago.
I have to put these pics on my web site in this way it will be easier to recover them.
Cheers,
Mauro

[Ron Wood]

Thank you Mauro for posting the pictures again. I knew this scope arrangement had been discussed before but I had not had the time to search for the thread. I believe at the time our own inimitable Tac Foley likened the use of this scope to â??peering up a mouseâ??s fundamentâ?� or words to that effect. I do not doubt that he is correct; I only wonder how he arrived at this comparison!

[John D.]

Hi folks,

Mike asked earlier today that this thread be deleted. But - between then and now - it looks like it has taken on an interesting derivation.

Mike - I'd rather leave this thread up, as I - for one - didn't know about the Aulke customization. Thanks Mauro for posting those!!

John D.

[Heinz]

And the lesson is, we now know it is a 1970 German alteration and it is going to be "coming out of an old collection" with "provenance by a long time collector" (the file card). Tuition at Luger U is high. Be careful.

[Mike B]

We have all heard it before: â??strength is in numbersâ?� and it seems to apply here. With all this knowledge coming together, there seems to a consensus. Maybe it is a good thing after all that I put this Luger on the forum, although at one time today I will say I had serious second thoughts. Seems several folks including yours truly learned some important lessons from this posting. But in end, the power of the forum prevails. Thanks to all for such insightful and resourceful comments and responses. And a special thanks to John D. for not removing the listing and John Sabato for a helping hand. Although I have no way to communicate with the owner of the Luger, I have contacted my friend and directed him to this forum. Thanks,
Mike

[Big Norm]

I don't see any mention of a stock on the card. Maybe I missed something. The photo does not show the so called flash supressor very well. Maybe it is a bore brush. Many people don't know what a bore brush is and may confuse it with a flash supressor. I would not want to shoot this gun with a bore brush screwed on it. The card only says that it comes with a snail drum.

While I have seen large caliber pistols with scopes on them that are used for deer hunting in southern Michigan, where rifles cannot legally be used, I cannot understand puting a scope on a smaller caliber pistol. Pistols are essentially short range weapons and so I cannot understand why a sniper would use a 9mm pistol with a scope. Every sniper that I talked to always bragged about their rifles. In Nam and in Korea, snipers had a choice of weapons that they used.

The only legit and unusual accessory to a LP-08 that I have ever seen was a mount with a brass flash light that Doug Smith of FGS once bought. It mounted on the underside of the barrel and would have had some wires running from it to a battery pack that would have been on a belt. Doug did not have the battery pack.
Big Norm

[Lugerdoc]

The practice of mounting a long eye relief ZF41 one and a half power scope on a luger is not uncommon, but personally, I don't know why anyone would want to bother. TH

[Johnny C. Kitchens]

Seems we have two subjects going on here, but I would like to say something on one. The Man From U.N.C.L.E. did indeed use Lugers in the first season. When the shows popularity took off big time, the customized P.38s showed up. The openning sequence for the first season shows, showed Napolean Solo taking out a bad guy trying to get into headquarters with a Luger...