Need identification help, please

[Laura]

Hello all ~

I have inherited a Luger pistol that belonged to my grandfather and is supposed to be from the WW1 era. My fiance is a gun enthusiast and we have been looking through all of his gun books to find info and value for this particular pistol and have reached a dead end. Here is what I know:

-It is a Luger artillery model (I believe it's a LP-08,) with an 8" barrel and 800 meter adjustable sight, 9mm caliber.
-Has DWM logo
-Serial number 635, matches all pieces including the magazine, the only thing we didn't check was the grips.

Now here's what's throwing us a curve ball - there is no date stamped on the barrel. We've found information about Lugers that have a 3-digit serial number with a date, or a 4-digit serial number with no date, but nothing for 3-digit serial with no date.

I know there are lots of forgeries out there, but since all of the serial numbers match, this doesn't seem likely (or else someone paid lots of attention to detail.)

I am able to post photos if necessary - I have a digital camera so I can photograph easily. I've searched this forum and done lots of Google searches tonight but have come up empty. Any help anyone here could provide regarding the age of and/or any info regarding the gun would be very much appreciated.

Thank you in advance for any input!
:-) ~Laura

[Dwight Gruber]

Laura,

Welcome to the Luger Forum.

Pictures are always good, both because they will help identify your Luger -and- because we just love to see the pictures!

There is not a correlation between the number of digits in the serial number and the presence or absence of a chamber date stamp. All Imperial military Lugers of any description, made between 1910 and 1918, have chamber dates; LP-08 production began in 1914.

It will be diagnostic for you to photograph or describe any markings on the left or right sides of the receiver, and also on the barrel. After WWI the germans manufactured many guns for the commercial market, including Commercial Artilleries. These are found marked differently from military guns, often with combinations of no chamber date and commercial proofs (crown-over-N) or no proofs at all.

Yours is sounding like a very interesting Luger.

--Dwight

[Laura]

Dwight,

Thank you for your reply! I'm about to sign off for the night, but tomorrow I'll snap some photos as you suggested and post them here. Far be it for me to deny a Luger enthusiast some eye candy. *grin*

Thanks again.

~Laura

[Edward Tinker]

Dwight, who I never 2nd guess, is right, pictures would be great, copious amounts!

My gut feeling is that it is either;

1. Commerical, was an imperial that had its date ground down and then sold in America.
2. Commerical, was made up after the war for resale in the usa.

And WELCOME to the forum!

Ed

[Big Norm]

Laura,
the above gentlemen are correct in assuming that the gun may be a commercial artillery Luger. What would help, until you get some good pictures, would be to look on the right hand side of the receiver to see if you have any military proof marks on it. The first break-down of a luger is into two pieces. The receiver is the top half of the gun and the frame is the bottom half. If the gun is a military and not a commecial LP-08 then there will be anywhere from two to six marks on the right hand side of the receiver with most of them looking like maybe one-eighth high eagles. If the gun is a commercial LP-08, then there will be nothing there and it will look like there never was anything there.
Big Norm

[Laura]

Hello again everyone,
Many thanks for the information you've already given. I've put together some pages of photos that will hopefully help. I'll be happy to take additional photos if requested. Let me know if you need clarification on anything - I know the angles I used are a little odd in some of the photos.

Thanks again! The photos can be found here: members.siteone.net/colt/luger1.htm

~Laura

[Dwight Gruber]

Laura,

An excellent selection of pictures which, unfortunately, shed no light on the absence of a date stamp. In every other respect this gun appears to be a perfectlyin Ordnung example of a DWM LP-08. The m letter suffix suggests that it was manufactured in 1917, as that is the only year in which Artillery Lugers are reported in this letter suffix range. If you can't find a small GERMANY stamped somewhere--anywhere--on this Luger, it is a puzzle beyond my ken.

From your photograph it appears that the magazine is a legitimate match. Authentic matching Luger magazines are uncommon, and yours adds both value and cachet to this gun If you are interested, an Artillery shoulder stock can be had for $400--$800, depending on circumstances.

An excellent Luger, thanks very much for sharing it.

--Dwight

[lugerholsterrepair]

Laura, This LP08 is without a doubt a military. It was born with a date and has been ground off. You will notice the different coloration and finish where the date was and should be.
The military proofs all over the pistol attest to this.
Dwight is correct, if it was exported to an English speaking country in the 20's after the war it would have Germany stamped on it.
Could have been bought in Germany and brought back rather than imported per se. Jerry Burney

[Edward Tinker]

Laura, can you post the pictures so they are actually part of the thread? In this way, the photos stay with the thread. Many times a person deletes the pictures after a month or so, because they feel they don't need them anymore, but that hurts the learning aspect of this site

Ed

[ken d]

Laura:

The elevation of the extractor indicates a round in the chamber....exercise
caution, could be a live round.

Regards Ken D

[Laura]

Ken - not to worry, we had a 9mm dummy round in there. No live ammo anywhere nearby.

Now, here's the next question - both my fiance and I have inspected every inch of the outside of that gun, and there is no "Germany" stamped anywhere. Are there common places where it would be, so we can double check those areas - inside or out? I'm beginning to believe that the date was most likely filed off, but whoever did it must have been a very skilled person, because to just look at the barrel, there are no scratches or marks or anything.

A little more background that I didn't think to add - my grandfather did purchase this gun in the United States in (I think) 1930. He was very good friends with a man who ran a military surplus store. Because they were friends, my grandfather was sometimes offered things from the man's collection that weren't necessarily for sale (they did a lot of "horse trading," so to speak,) so I can't say for sure how this gun was acquired by my grandfather's friend.

Here are smaller versions of some of the photos - hopefully I'm doing this right and they'll show up in the thread as requested. I am only putting the ones that I feel would be most helpful here, and in smaller form; there were 15 photos total, all fairly large, and I don't want to hurt anyone on dial-up.

I will keep the original, larger photos on my filespace indefinitely (I've got stuff on there that's so old I don't know what it is - I never clean that place up!) so if anyone wants to see more, they're still there: members.siteone.net/colt/luger1.htm

One more time, thank you to everyone who is offering information. Just knowing a specific year has helped a great deal.

[Edward Tinker]

Laura, was going to check something on the serial number, as "m" suffixes were only made certain years, but my Imperial Lugers book is in storage.

My gut feeling is that this started as a 1916, 1917 or 1918. The proofs on the right look correct for that time period...

Ed

[pipeman45]

However this turns out on the pistol. I want to thank you for posting your pics.

[Edward Tinker]

Laura, thanks

Although most guns from that time period were supposed to be marked "germany", if it came through Canada or another country, it wouldn't have been.

I would guess DWM re-arsenaled it and that is why it is done so professionally for the date being taken off.

Ed

[George Anderson]

The lady's pistol is a post WWI commercial. As noted, the date has been ground off. The absence of the usual "GERMANY" marking may indicate that it was refabricated for the continental market.

I have one just like it serial numbered 4486a with no fine tunes. Like the one above, mine is not marked "GERMANY".

It started life as a military issue. It's a nice pistol and a relatively scarce piece.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Although most guns from that time period were supposed to be marked "germany", if it came through Canada or another country, it wouldn't have been.

Ed, I believe any pistol exported from Germany in the 20's would have Germany stamped on it if it were exported to an English speaking country. Canada included even though they are also French speaking....Jerry

[Tomathvl]

Laura,
Looks like you have everything answered except how much is it worth? That gets difficult without holding the piece in your hands and seeing it in person. It appears to be in nice condition, has a matching mag, and it's somewhat unusual as George mentioned. I'll start off by saying if it were mine I'd insure it for somewhere in the $2500-$3000 range. If others disagree, I'm sure they'll speak their minds. Not many shrinking violets around here.
Tom

[jamese]

Ed,
according to Still's "Imperial Lugers" DWM LP-08 "m" suffixes were manufactured in 1917.

Jim

[mauro]

Hello Laura,
Your pistol is very interesting indeed.
The post WWI commercial models are quite. The absence of the chamber date increases the interest. If you have time please have a look at my web site. I have collected plenty of information about the history and use of this gun during WWI.
Ciao
Mauro

[John Sabato]

I agree with the consensus that this is a former military LP-08. Why the date was ground off is a mystery.

I think Jamese comment about the date of manufacture is correct as well, since the artillery sights are not the "fine tune" variety...

Congrats on a fine Luger Laura...

I highly recommend that you save this piece of history for YOUR grandchildren.... I also recommend that you order a copy of Mauro's book on the Artillery Luger as an addition to this fine gun.

Welcome to the Lugerforum.