american eagle help

[Padre Dan]

need some help on this american eagle , it is now at a local gun shop and for sale for 1200. seems to be all matching , 9mm s/n 7062 dwm, no import stamps , i know it looks good , but does it all match? and is it all correct , and if correct is this pistol worth the 1200 price or is it worth more or less /ty for your help

[Mac Cat]

Looks like a 1920's commercial luger to me.
It may not have a lot of numbered parts.
I'd very surprised if it is an AE with no export stamp somewhere.
Sometimes they are on the backside of the frame...

I can't make out any numbered small parts from the photos - a bit dark.
The strawed parts look silver to me. They should be strawed (gold colored).
The GESICHERT looks blued over, so look carefully to see if it's been touched up.

No suffix on the serial number ?
Kinda looks like a 7.65mm barrel, to me.

Price isn't bad, but you should be able to negotiate down for condition.

[Mac Cat]

Oh, now I see the "K" on the sales tag after the serial number.
That might help dated it to 1921-22.
That would make it an Alphabet Luger

The table below is from Jan C Still's Weimar Lugers (p. 15).

[Doubs]

If the bore is decent then that Luger is easily worth $1200. The parts that should be numbered are the frame, under the barrel, under the side plate, under the locking bolt (take down lever) and the rear of the toggle link. The breechblock may be numbered on the left side but I won't swear to that.

[Padre Dan]

one magazine is numbered other one is not , not numbered to the pistol , but would be corrrect for the pistol i believe

[Padre Dan]

i find it odd that no where is there a import stamp of any kind or made in Germany , unless it was bought in Germany or was brought back , no way to know , what i am getting from those on here 1.200 is a fair price and i thank each of you for your help

[Padre Dan]

went to buy it and pay the 1.200 for it , and the seller who i have done business with for years ,decided to charge tax on it . to my knowledge None of my gun trading friends i have done any business has ever tried charge me tax on any gun deal. yes i left it . did i want the luger sure , i brought. the cash to buy it with me , just not paying any tax on it . seller has burned that bridge with me .

[DonVoigt]

I understand not wanting to pay the "tax", probably close to another $100 on the price- But- looks like the seller is a dealer and someone has to render to Caesar.

Person to person, yes no tax; but at a "retail" shop the the tax is either in the price or an add on. JMHO.

Letting it go was likely wise, $1200 was already a reach for it IMO.

[Doubs]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Letting it go was likely wise, $1200 was already a reach for it IMO.

If the original offer included tax then I understand the reluctance to pay the additional money.

However, at a time when mismatched, often rough, Lugers are being bought for $900 ~ $1,000 and are considered an OK deal, I don't think $1,200 for that Luger is a reach at all.

Just my opinion and others may disagree.

[Mac Cat]

On the other hand, you checked it out first and showed some restraint.
There are more Lugers.

There isn't much written about Commercial Lugers, but I can see where one with an American Eagle is pretty hard to resist. There is a lot of research and really good reference books about military Lugers, particularly the German Army and Navy pistols, which is why I find them more interesting.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

[Padre Dan]

yes he is a dealer, he and i go back to doing gun deals over twenty years or more along with other gun dealers and shops in my area . i am known as always a cash buyer , and nay price quoted to me is out the door price , meaning that will be the price i am paying , first time this has ever happened between us , but i kinda doubt we will deal again. i am thinking it may end up on gun broker for more , if it does so be it . i will keep the 1200 and lock it back up for what ever i decided i want at the right price . i thank everyone for their help .

[velodog455~]

If tax caused it to be around $1,300 OTD then I would buy it. Just my $.02...

I just lost an auction on GB for a rough and mismatched Luger w/rough holster. It went for $2,000, which boggled my mind.

[Roadster 02]

I think it's the "principal of the thing" that bothers the OP. I know I have walked away from a sale for $1 before because of that. I think he feels a certain loyalty should be afforded to him as a repeat cash paying customer. He was quoted a price and there should not be any add-ons.

[Dwight Gruber]

I wish I had run across this post earlier. This pistol is a fake. You dodged a bullet by passing on it. There are no authentic American Eagle (only) Lugers in the Alphabet Commercial range.

The only exception to this are the Lugers imported by the A.F. Stoeger company in the '20s and early '30s. They include the AE and a distinctive right receiver retailer inscription. Caution, this inscription itself is commonly faked, and authentic examples go for more than three times the the price of this pistol.

--Dwight

[Doubs]

Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber

I wish I had run across this post earlier. This pistol is a fake. You dodged a bullet by passing on it. There are no authentic American Eagle (only) Lugers in the Alphabet Commercial range. --Dwight

It is undoubtedly a fake AE pieced together from at least two different pistols and that's a valid point. But, if someone is looking for a reasonably priced 30 caliber shooter, that's not an unreasonable price for one in that condition... assuming that the bore is good.

Mismatched, rough condition shooter Lugers are bringing $1,000 - sometimes more - so an extra $250 for one with a decent finish isn't unreasonable IMO.

The cheapest Luger on the Simpson website is $1,295; a Swiss P'00/'06 with fair bore and looks nowhere near as nice as the subject Luger.

Can the OP do better for $1200? Possibly... if he's lucky. Patience will be required.

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by Doubs

It is undoubtedly a fake AE pieced together from at least two different pistols and that's a valid point. But, if someone is looking for a reasonably priced 30 caliber shooter, that's not an unreasonable price for one in that condition... assuming that the bore is good.

Mismatched, rough condition shooter Lugers are bringing $1,000 - sometimes more - so an extra $250 for one with a decent finish isn't unreasonable IMO.

The cheapest Luger on the Simpson website is $1,295; a Swiss P'00/'06 with fair bore and looks nowhere near as nice as the subject Luger.

Can the OP do better for $1200? Possibly... if he's lucky. Patience will be required.

In the original post Padre Dan says it is 9mm, I'm not sure what caliber it is- it sure looks like a .30 barrel.

As to value, you are absolutley correct, everyone has an opinion and in the final analysis it is only the buyer who can decide what any Luger pistol is worth.

[Padre Dan]

i first went by the tag the seller had on the pistol as 9mm , it is a 7.65 . 30 luger , i never corrected the seller, i have other .30 lugers and a good bit of the ammo . i am still not a buyer or do i know if it has been sold or not . i doubt the seller is going to reach out with a further counter offer ,so looks like i will not be the buyer . again thanks to each of you for your help.

[Padre Dan]

i would have payed the 1200, but i kept thinking why did a 1921 commercial alphabet luger not have a import stamp on it ? that kept me from buying it when it was first offered , but since everything matched , i went back and made the offer , he has since come to 1250 . oo , i have not really saw many American eagles , so it looked ok to me , now not so sure i would even pay the 1200 for it , ty everyone for your help .

[Padre Dan]

the bore is very good on it , after he came to 1250.00 on it we have not talked . i do not have the knowledge to know how it was faked or what two different lugers it came from since all the numbers match . could someone enlighten me ? rethinking the purchase , ty

[Doubs]

Originally Posted by Padre Dan

the bore is very good on it , after he came to 1250.00 on it we have not talked . i do not have the knowledge to know how it was faked or what two different lugers it came from since all the numbers match . could someone enlighten me ? rethinking the purchase , ty

What Dwight says is true; except for the exceptions he mentions there were no American Eagle Lugers in the alphabet commercial series. The alphabet commercial series began in 1921 with either 1 i or 2000 i depending upon who you believe. Five digit numbers for commercials had reached 92000 approximately and they didn't want to use six digits so 2000 i corresponds with 92000 if the first 10,000 did not have a suffix letter, the second 10,000 used suffix a, the next 10,000 b and so forth.

A close examination would have to be made to determine if the frame has had the original serial number scrubbed and then matched to the barrel and toggle train serial numbers or some other method was used to match the upper assembly - the receiver, barrel and toggle train - to the frame. Without a hands-on examination, how it was done is speculation. What is certain is that the upper and lower did not leave the factory that way.