1936 Krieghoff

sdmark777 · 04-30-2021, 09:42 PM

Saw this 1936 Krieghoff in a gun store today. I don't have any Krieghoffs myself, maybe someday, on the wish list for sure. Not as clean as I would like, but did appear to be matching except the magazine which is unmarked and appears to be messed with. Did not find a serial number on the takedown lever, but did not remove it either. Take down is a little beat. Had a hold open, but it did not function. Firing pin, side plate, toggle front and rear, toggle pin all matching. Took the best photos I could under their fluorescent lights to share with you. I understand there are a few variations of 1936 Krieghoffs. Please comment on this Krieghoff so I and others can learn. Seems pretty high priced at $4,500.00 considering everything, but I know Kriegs are high value. Thanks.

sdmark777 · 04-30-2021, 09:43 PM

more pics

spangy · 04-30-2021, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdmark777

but did appear to be matching except the magazine which is unmarked and appears to be messed with. --- Had a hold open, but it did not function.

A 'messed with' magazine is a good reason why a hold open doesn't function.
I suggest trying the hold open with another mag ... perhaps a new MecGar if you have one available. This could tell you a lot about whether the hold open is in need of work ... IMO I suspect the magazine is the real problem and this simple test will tell you a lot.
Looking at the mag images it definitely looks 'messed with' and in need of GT's attention

JMHO ... don't shoot the messenger ... just trying to help.

sdmark777 · 04-30-2021, 10:03 PM

Thanks Spangy, but it is not mine, just for sale in a gun shop. I do not intend to purchase this Krieghoff.

Norme · 04-30-2021, 10:30 PM

It looks like a real Kreighoff but it has a BIG problem, it's stock lug appears to have been removed!
Norm

sdmark777 · 04-30-2021, 11:10 PM

Well Norme, good eye. That fact slipped by me. Did all 1936 Krieghoffs have stock lugs? And by the way, would this be a commercial or military Krieghoff? It has hidden serial numbers like a commercial. Here is the only pic I have of the back. I didn't check its heel well, as the missing stock lug escaped me in my rush.

gunnertwo · 05-01-2021, 03:04 AM

The number is not listed on Tom's list of Krieghoff's. With the lug ground off the frame must have been refinished.

G2

cirelaw · 05-01-2021, 10:07 AM

No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wait till you find a nice one! https://simpsonltd.com/krieghoff-1936-c31229/

Michigan Gunner · 05-01-2021, 05:54 PM

It's a lot of money for a shooter!

Lock and Load!

ithacaartist · 05-01-2021, 06:45 PM

To my eye, either it never had a stock lug or the repair of the area from which one might have been removed is excellent.

Grinding off a stock lug to eliminate all traces of it does not leave enough material to present the same line as a frame that was built without. In other words, there's not a non lugged frame "inside" a lugged frame because the cuts for the lug go too deep.

It's also possible to spot refinish a discreet area of a Luger frame, as Ted Green once showed us in pics. We are patient enough to wait for better pics of this area, which may provide a clue. Alas, I'm not Krieghoff-savvy enough to know if this observation is even worthwhile.

Hardleyever · 05-01-2021, 08:59 PM

It also looks as though the frame was seriously dinged before refinishing.

lugerholsterrepair · 05-01-2021, 09:34 PM

Boys, this Keieg was born a he..it is now a she.

Pistol · 05-03-2021, 10:24 AM

A real Bruce Gender, except Bruce kept his stock lug.

gunnertwo · 05-03-2021, 01:19 PM

Joe, I’m stealing your comment. It might only make sense in the Luger collecting world but it’s a keeper.

G2

1933 FORD NUT · 05-03-2021, 02:11 PM

Looks pretty honest to me .

Looking at the front frame pic tells me the entire frame has not been redone .
Maybe just redone to cover the hack job on the lug area .

You mention different variations on 1936 dated HK's .
Yes to that and this is a late one .
Note the 85 on the saftey bar .
Earlier ones are usually not numbered .
Note the frame front is not quite as polished as earlier 1936 dated ones .

This late example is more like a 1937 and should have serial numbers on most parts .

Does the owner know it is butchered ?
I have a weakness for honest but crippled HK"s but not at that price .
Actually have a good HK frame but obviously not this number .

And yes it is a standard military contract gun = late serial placement .
Takedown lever looks right and will be numbered on the inside .

cirelaw · 05-03-2021, 04:36 PM

What causes the lines and circles on the receiver? My 1937 Kreighoff has neither~

1933 FORD NUT · 05-03-2021, 08:14 PM

This is a late 1936 and pretty much the same as 1937"s .
Lines and " circles " are normal and should be there .
Assuming you mean the " circles " on the rear frame sides ?

All are machining-finishing marks .

On the " circles " most HK's have a matte - sand blasted looking finish in that area .

Not all though as a few late ones like the 1943 serial 11411 in Jans third reich lugers and my 1943 serial 11567 are not blasted looking and the area is kinda shiny - with circles of course .

NO END to the little details to study on honest HK's .

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

What causes the lines and circles on the receiver? My 1937 Kreighoff has neither~

Heinz · 05-03-2021, 09:21 PM

I thought the machining on the right side of the receiver looked very rough for a Krieghoff. Especially one with a 7385 serial number.

1933 FORD NUT · 05-03-2021, 11:16 PM

On the upper end of the rough scale on this example for sure .
Still normal though .
The precision machining tolerances may have dictated that this was the point to stop removing material .

Remember this 10,000 luger order was nothing more than a showcase of HK's precision skills .

Aircraft machine guns and etc was what they were after .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heinz

I thought the machining on the right side of the receiver looked very rough for a Krieghoff. Especially one with a 7385 serial number.

cirelaw · 05-03-2021, 10:05 PM

Kreighoff Birth Marks??

04-30-2021, 09:42 PM	#1
sdmark777 User Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 288 Thanks: 695 Thanked 672 Times in 174 Posts	1936 Krieghoff Saw this 1936 Krieghoff in a gun store today. I don't have any Krieghoffs myself, maybe someday, on the wish list for sure. Not as clean as I would like, but did appear to be matching except the magazine which is unmarked and appears to be messed with. Did not find a serial number on the takedown lever, but did not remove it either. Take down is a little beat. Had a hold open, but it did not function. Firing pin, side plate, toggle front and rear, toggle pin all matching. Took the best photos I could under their fluorescent lights to share with you. I understand there are a few variations of 1936 Krieghoffs. Please comment on this Krieghoff so I and others can learn. Seems pretty high priced at $4,500.00 considering everything, but I know Kriegs are high value. Thanks. Attached Thumbnails

04-30-2021, 09:43 PM	#2
sdmark777 User Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 288 Thanks: 695 Thanked 672 Times in 174 Posts	more pics Attached Thumbnails

04-30-2021, 11:10 PM	#6
sdmark777 User Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 288 Thanks: 695 Thanked 672 Times in 174 Posts	Well Norme, good eye. That fact slipped by me. Did all 1936 Krieghoffs have stock lugs? And by the way, would this be a commercial or military Krieghoff? It has hidden serial numbers like a commercial. Here is the only pic I have of the back. I didn't check its heel well, as the missing stock lug escaped me in my rush. Attached Thumbnails

05-01-2021, 06:45 PM	#10
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,346 Thanks: 7,277 Thanked 2,578 Times in 1,365 Posts	To my eye, either it never had a stock lug or the repair of the area from which one might have been removed is excellent. Grinding off a stock lug to eliminate all traces of it does not leave enough material to present the same line as a frame that was built without. In other words, there's not a non lugged frame "inside" a lugged frame because the cuts for the lug go too deep. It's also possible to spot refinish a discreet area of a Luger frame, as Ted Green once showed us in pics. We are patient enough to wait for better pics of this area, which may provide a clue. Alas, I'm not Krieghoff-savvy enough to know if this observation is even worthwhile. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

05-01-2021, 09:34 PM	#12
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,933 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Boys, this Keieg was born a he..it is now a she. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

04-30-2021, 10:03 PM	#4
sdmark777 User Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 288 Thanks: 695 Thanked 672 Times in 174 Posts	Thanks Spangy, but it is not mine, just for sale in a gun shop. I do not intend to purchase this Krieghoff.

04-30-2021, 10:30 PM	#5
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	It looks like a real Kreighoff but it has a BIG problem, it's stock lug appears to have been removed! Norm

05-01-2021, 03:04 AM	#7
gunnertwo User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Nampa, Idaho Posts: 623 Thanks: 826 Thanked 930 Times in 363 Posts	The number is not listed on Tom's list of Krieghoff's. With the lug ground off the frame must have been refinished. G2

05-01-2021, 10:07 AM	#8
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wait till you find a nice one! https://simpsonltd.com/krieghoff-1936-c31229/

05-01-2021, 05:54 PM	#9
Michigan Gunner User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Michigan, on the border Posts: 75 Thanks: 2 Thanked 15 Times in 9 Posts	It's a lot of money for a shooter! Lock and Load!

05-01-2021, 08:59 PM	#11
Hardleyever User Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 14 Thanks: 3 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	It also looks as though the frame was seriously dinged before refinishing.

05-03-2021, 10:24 AM	#13
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 428 Thanks: 448 Thanked 220 Times in 99 Posts	A real Bruce Gender, except Bruce kept his stock lug.

05-03-2021, 01:19 PM	#14
gunnertwo User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Nampa, Idaho Posts: 623 Thanks: 826 Thanked 930 Times in 363 Posts	Joe, I’m stealing your comment. It might only make sense in the Luger collecting world but it’s a keeper. G2

05-03-2021, 02:11 PM	#15
1933 FORD NUT User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: WI Posts: 88 Thanks: 3 Thanked 69 Times in 36 Posts	Looks pretty honest to me . Looking at the front frame pic tells me the entire frame has not been redone . Maybe just redone to cover the hack job on the lug area . You mention different variations on 1936 dated HK's . Yes to that and this is a late one . Note the 85 on the saftey bar . Earlier ones are usually not numbered . Note the frame front is not quite as polished as earlier 1936 dated ones . This late example is more like a 1937 and should have serial numbers on most parts . Does the owner know it is butchered ? I have a weakness for honest but crippled HK"s but not at that price . Actually have a good HK frame but obviously not this number . And yes it is a standard military contract gun = late serial placement . Takedown lever looks right and will be numbered on the inside .

05-03-2021, 04:36 PM	#16
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	What causes the lines and circles on the receiver? My 1937 Kreighoff has neither~ Attached Thumbnails

05-03-2021, 09:21 PM	#18
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	I thought the machining on the right side of the receiver looked very rough for a Krieghoff. Especially one with a 7385 serial number.

05-03-2021, 10:05 PM	#20
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Kreighoff Birth Marks??