Factory Boosting ?

[Tim Reynolds]

After a closer observation of my DWM 1920/1917 I see that the side trigger plate is boosted.Being that the number font look identical to me,and these guns are known to be factory reworks with new and used parts,Has this gun dropped into the shooter category.

[Tim Reynolds]

2

[Tim Reynolds]

3

[Tim Reynolds]

4

[Edward Tinker]

Tim, may be I missed a posting on your navy, but why do you say 1920/1917's are known reworks?

I don't know navies, so might be talking out of my posteriour, but a 1920 stamp is not a rework date but a gov't property marking.

It appears you have a overstamped sideplate, boosting for some, renumbered to others.... but not the original numbers for sure... In addition, unless it started as a commerical pistol, a military pistol is stamped in the open, not the hidden style.


Ed

[Tim Reynolds]

Ed,I have better photos of this two date in the navy forum under "TWO DATE".I based my thread on the book.LUGERS at RANDOM by Kenyon,page 176.Thanks Tim

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...threadid=16782

[policeluger]

Tim, I do not believe these are boostered in any way, a true factory rework was never meant to deceive or cheat anyone, it was I feel just their way of creating a factory rework, that was fitted and functioned with numbered matching parts to attest to work done and a complete gun. I also do not feel that a factory job/rework is a lesser gun, all things equal, it would not detract form being collectable....I hope not anyway as I have several in my collection as you pictured above....and Ed, original rework...not bubba rework

[Edward Tinker]

Howard, I understood this, however, this is a 1917 navy that was stamped with a property stamp of 1920 and not reworked until after 1919 and probably in the late 1920's.

I have no idea what Kenyon said 45 years ago, but this rework was done by DWM, hence the mismatched / forced matched commericial sideplate and the germany stamp.

[Vlim]

Hi,

All you can say at this point is that 'someone' replaced the sideplate. Not who. The plate could have been mated to the gun at any given point in time between 1917 and 2007.

DWM were not known for sloppy workmanship.

[Navy]

Gents,

The notion that this was done by DWM or their successors is patently absurd. During the post W.W.I period, the gunsmiths and makers were so pressed for work that they took to making office equipment and bicycles, for heavens sake. Any opportunity to refurbish a gun for export would have no doubt produced a product similar in quality to the lovely 1920 commercials and the 1920 carbines.

Clearly this re-numbering is not factory; were I a betting man, I'd wager that it was done by the arsenal servicing the unit that applied the 1920 stamp. In other words, a Reichswehr or Reichspolezi organization.

Tom A

[Ron Smith]

I think Tom's on the mark here. Making use of parts available to get it salable for the export market. The 1920 property mark indicates that it was Gov't property for a short period after WWI. Then, probably surplused out. The Reichsmarine was reduced to a compliment of about 4000 officers and enlisted, so they had many more sidearms than they needed at the time.

Ron

[Lugerdoc]

Tim, The "9" on your sideplate appears to me to be an upside down "5". Probably whoever renumbered it didn't have a #9 die, so I doubt that this was done a any factory or arsenal. TH

[Big Norm]

Tim,
what about the take-down lever. Your original pictures shows a nice flat surface with no number on the front (which is proper). The number should be on the bottom but non of your pictures show that serial number. This part is an interesting part because it is so easily broken by an amateur who doesn't know what he is doing. Also, if the locking bolt spring isn't there for some reason, its a part that can easily fall out on any Luger. Then anything can happen to it. Check to see if that number looks right. I agree with Tom about the side plate. The 1920 date on the chamber also looks funny to me. If memory serves me right on the double dates that I remember seeing, they are usually pretty nicely done. But I am not into double dates so don't hold my feet to the fire on that. I don't think that the "9" on your side plate is an upside down "5", but your part has definately been renumbered. There is no way of knowing who did it. Some people who have children will remove the side plate under their mistaken belief that this will make the gun unshootable and therefore safe around children. Then they lose the side plate. Hey, its a ninety year old gun and its probably passed through a lot of hands.
Big Norm

[Big Norm]

In response to other comments about the Weimar era, I would like to remind people that, after WW1 the German military as well as the people were greatly disillusioned. Their factories were stripped of their machinery and the economy was in ruins. Nobody could figure out why Germany surrendered since all their troups were on foreign soil at the end of the war. Monuments to the German soldiers were not allowed. A plague was killing millions of people in Europe and America. German people were starving to death for a couple of months after the was ended because Britain kept their ports under seige even though the war treaty was signed. Georg Luger invested all his money into failing German companies and he eventually went bankrupt. So he probably wasn't paying a whole lot of attention to what was happening to his famous gun. We have no idea who messed with Tims gun or if it was even messed with during the Weimar era. If the side plate is the only thing messed with on his Luger, then its still pretty nice, but its not a collectors piece.
Big Norm

[Big Norm]

In response to other comments about the Weimar era, I would like to remind people that, after WW1 the German military as well as the people were greatly disillusioned. Their factories were stripped of their machinery and the economy was in ruins. Nobody could figure out why Germany surrendered since all their troups were on foreign soil at the end of the war. Monuments to the German soldiers were not allowed. A plague was killing millions of people in Europe and America. German people were starving to death for a couple of months after the war ended because Britain kept German ports under seige even though the war treaty was signed. Georg Luger invested all his money into failing German companies and he eventually went bankrupt. So he probably wasn't paying a whole lot of attention to what was happening to his famous gun. We have no idea who messed with Tims gun or if it was even messed with during the Weimar era. If the side plate is the only thing messed with on his Luger, then its still pretty nice, but, unfortunately,its not a collectors piece.
Big Norm

[Tim Reynolds]

BigNorm,The take down lever has the number 95 like the rest of the gun.To the naked eye the side plate overstamp is hardly visible.It looks like a smudge unless it is magnified.In the book LUGER VARIATIONS by Harry Jones page 143 and Charles Kenyon LUGERS at RANDOM page 176. Both books say refinished and refurbished,with new and used parts.To me it may very well be a part of the guns history.One thing I do not understand is why alot of luger collectors do not think a mismatched clip is a big deal.It is such an integral part of the gun.It is also a key component in how a gun functions.I would think soldiers would take care in keeping all the parts together. To me if the clip does not match the gun ,it is a mismatch.Mine does not match.This is another thread for discussing.The most important thing about the gun is that I like it right or wrong.Thanks again for all the information.Tim

[Big Norm]

Tim,
you should like your Navy Luger. Except for the side plate, its legit. Your comments about the double dates may very well be valid. We will really never know.

On your question about the magazine, you have to remember the time at which this gun was used. At the end of WW1, this was just another of a million or more pistols laying around. Many times these guns had their magazines removed and the magazine was then thrown on one stack and the pistol was thrown on another heap. All that later mattered was that the gun had a workable magazine, any magazine. Except for souviner hunting American GI's and maybe Brits and Aussies, nobody cared. The gun was not a collectible thing like it is now. Many weapons were thrown over board from ships bringing the soldiers home because they were threatened with court marshel if they got caught bringing them home. And while ALL these soldiers wanted to keep their trophies, they wanted to go home more.

Somewhere in my collection of pictures, I have an actual picture of a 3-4 foot high stack of small arm weapons that were about to be destroyed. Its now unbelievable the things that you can make out in that stack. This picture was posted on the old Luger forum a long time ago.
Big Norm

[Tim Reynolds]

Big Norm Thanks for all the information you have helped me with on this relic.Good Hunting! Tim

[Pete Ebbink]

Sorry to be so late...

But on my high-rez LCD screen, the sideplate looks to be "14" originally with "95" struck over.

[Tim Reynolds]

Pete,I gave up caring about what it was or was'nt along time ago.I know I could double my money if I sold it as parts.It makes a great shooter something that you don't see everyday.The early Luger books say they used anything they had on hand,thats good enough for me.