New Luger - VOPO?

RoyalTermite · 06-03-2014, 11:22 PM

I picked up my 3rd Luger today. It was billed as a VOPO. Only 2 serial numbers on the gun. No date - appears to have been removed and the finish is thin or redone in this area. No markings on toggle. Plastic/Bakelite grips. Holster looks like a reproduction and was told such. Came with 2 mags that appear to be cheap repops of the Ebay variety. (already have 2 like them). Aside from the mismatched accessories, what are your opinions on the pistol itself?

Bore is excellent. Finish looks pretty good. Only a few blemishes. All parts are tight and function well. No rust or pitting anywhere. There is an S/42 marking on the underside of the barrel. Appears to be a small Waffen stamp on the rear top of toggle.

RoyalTermite · 06-03-2014, 11:38 PM

There is a number inside the toggle on the pin visible on one of the pictures.

RoyalTermite · 06-04-2014, 01:17 AM

I may have posted tis in the wrong forum. If so, mods please move to correct zone (post WW2)

Schupo · 06-04-2014, 09:16 AM

It is certainly a parts gun and the grips are East German. It does not look like a Volkspolizei rework to me as it only has a couple of serial numbers and no DDR proofs of any sort. I would expect to see some evidence of VP proofing if it were an official Vopo arsenal rework.

John Sabato · 06-04-2014, 09:16 AM

This DOES look like a post war East German rebuild to me.

I am not sure why they might have sanitized the maker mark on the toggle, but that toggle has either been milled off to remove the maker mark, or it was brand new EG production replacement part.

The barrel is a Mauser (S/42) replacement part.

The grips ARE VOPO. And if memory serves me correctly, the small number visible through the toggle hole is the same number they put on newly manufactured EG VOPO magazines. The mark on the top of the rear toggle appears to be an inspection or acceptance mark for the work done on rebuilding the toggle train. The photo of that mark is not very clear. Can you take a better closeup?

The number "42" appears on the back of the safety lever, so that is also an armorer's replacement part made by Mauser, probably war stock captured by the Russians.

The VOPO armorers did excellent work, and this should prove to be an excellent shooter.

RoyalTermite · 06-04-2014, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Sabato

The mark on the top of the rear toggle appears to be an inspection or acceptance mark for the work done on rebuilding the toggle train. The photo of that mark is not very clear. Can you take a better close up? .

Where can I get a replacement retaining pin in the toggle?

mrerick · 06-04-2014, 09:19 AM

Hi,

Well, it's an interesting Luger.

The S/42 on the barrel would indicate that it is an armorer's replacement made by Mauser. This also is confirmed by the lack of a witness mark being added when it was replaced.

It's missing a little retaining pin in the toggle. This is what keeps the toggle's central axle in place, so be careful about firing it until that pin is re-installed.

I think that the axle itself may be machinist's pin rather than the proper hardened axle pin that should be in the toggle train of a shooting Luger. The issue is one of proper hardening and strength. A soft pin could shear or be deformed. Again, I'd get a proper replacement. (I just saw John's post above, and as I'm not familiar with how the VoPo may have marked replacement parts, defer to his judgement... Still, the retaining pin is missing).

Somebody carefully ground off the factory concealment code marks from the forward toggle. I can't see enough of the profile to tell if the front of the receiver top was also scrubbed.

The "RW" mark under the forward toggle is a Mauser factory approval mark.

Those are VoPo plastic grips.

So, it probably will make a good shooter. I would have someone familiar with Lugers thoroughly inspect it and consider having the toggle axle pin looked at.

Ron Wood · 06-04-2014, 08:35 PM

The small number visible through the toggle hole is 0,05 indicating it is a replacement pin .05mm oversize to compensate for wear. This probably explains why the retaining pin is missing, it was either too loose and came out or was never re-installed when the axle pin was replaced. Although the new oversize axle pin is probably nice and tight, a new retaining pin should be installed as recommended. Pretty nice looking gun.

06-03-2014, 11:22 PM	#1
RoyalTermite User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Kennett Square. PA Posts: 63 Thanks: 39 Thanked 56 Times in 19 Posts	New Luger - VOPO? I picked up my 3rd Luger today. It was billed as a VOPO. Only 2 serial numbers on the gun. No date - appears to have been removed and the finish is thin or redone in this area. No markings on toggle. Plastic/Bakelite grips. Holster looks like a reproduction and was told such. Came with 2 mags that appear to be cheap repops of the Ebay variety. (already have 2 like them). Aside from the mismatched accessories, what are your opinions on the pistol itself? Bore is excellent. Finish looks pretty good. Only a few blemishes. All parts are tight and function well. No rust or pitting anywhere. There is an S/42 marking on the underside of the barrel. Appears to be a small Waffen stamp on the rear top of toggle. Attached Thumbnails

06-03-2014, 11:38 PM	#2
RoyalTermite User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Kennett Square. PA Posts: 63 Thanks: 39 Thanked 56 Times in 19 Posts	There is a number inside the toggle on the pin visible on one of the pictures. Attached Thumbnails

06-04-2014, 09:16 AM	#4
Schupo User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Kansas City Metro Posts: 206 Thanks: 1 Thanked 102 Times in 47 Posts	It is certainly a parts gun and the grips are East German. It does not look like a Volkspolizei rework to me as it only has a couple of serial numbers and no DDR proofs of any sort. I would expect to see some evidence of VP proofing if it were an official Vopo arsenal rework. __________________ "You can't please everyone, so you have got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson

06-04-2014, 09:16 AM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	This DOES look like a post war East German rebuild to me. I am not sure why they might have sanitized the maker mark on the toggle, but that toggle has either been milled off to remove the maker mark, or it was brand new EG production replacement part. The barrel is a Mauser (S/42) replacement part. The grips ARE VOPO. And if memory serves me correctly, the small number visible through the toggle hole is the same number they put on newly manufactured EG VOPO magazines. The mark on the top of the rear toggle appears to be an inspection or acceptance mark for the work done on rebuilding the toggle train. The photo of that mark is not very clear. Can you take a better closeup? The number "42" appears on the back of the safety lever, so that is also an armorer's replacement part made by Mauser, probably war stock captured by the Russians. The VOPO armorers did excellent work, and this should prove to be an excellent shooter. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-04-2014, 09:19 AM	#7
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,907 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,509 Posts	Hi, Well, it's an interesting Luger. The S/42 on the barrel would indicate that it is an armorer's replacement made by Mauser. This also is confirmed by the lack of a witness mark being added when it was replaced. It's missing a little retaining pin in the toggle. This is what keeps the toggle's central axle in place, so be careful about firing it until that pin is re-installed. I think that the axle itself may be machinist's pin rather than the proper hardened axle pin that should be in the toggle train of a shooting Luger. The issue is one of proper hardening and strength. A soft pin could shear or be deformed. Again, I'd get a proper replacement. (I just saw John's post above, and as I'm not familiar with how the VoPo may have marked replacement parts, defer to his judgement... Still, the retaining pin is missing). Somebody carefully ground off the factory concealment code marks from the forward toggle. I can't see enough of the profile to tell if the front of the receiver top was also scrubbed. The "RW" mark under the forward toggle is a Mauser factory approval mark. Those are VoPo plastic grips. So, it probably will make a good shooter. I would have someone familiar with Lugers thoroughly inspect it and consider having the toggle axle pin looked at. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

06-04-2014, 01:17 AM	#3
RoyalTermite User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Kennett Square. PA Posts: 63 Thanks: 39 Thanked 56 Times in 19 Posts	I may have posted tis in the wrong forum. If so, mods please move to correct zone (post WW2)

06-04-2014, 08:35 PM	#8
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,017 Thanks: 1,089 Thanked 5,164 Times in 1,700 Posts	The small number visible through the toggle hole is 0,05 indicating it is a replacement pin .05mm oversize to compensate for wear. This probably explains why the retaining pin is missing, it was either too loose and came out or was never re-installed when the axle pin was replaced. Although the new oversize axle pin is probably nice and tight, a new retaining pin should be installed as recommended. Pretty nice looking gun. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction