Fake Black Widow Grips?

CJS57 · 12-12-2023, 07:40 AM

These do not look original to me. Interested in your views.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1022835924

Kiwi · 12-12-2023, 09:09 AM

Current bid $515 if they are not real the seller is going to get some feedback

Roadster 02 · 12-12-2023, 03:05 PM

Holy Moley! 500 bucks for some grips! Just so you can say you have a "black widow" ? And that is a wholly made up term? Wow, some folks have more money than sense.

zinfull · 12-12-2023, 03:12 PM

It getting to be that the sum of the parts are worth more than the whole. But $500 for grips, time to strip my shooters down.

gunnertwo · 12-12-2023, 10:33 PM

The buyer should use the "hot pin test" on them.

G2

jeb111 · 12-16-2023, 01:05 AM

It's my understanding that many reproduction grips are being made of Bakelite so the hot pin test maybe isn't such the reliable test it used to be. Me personally I would be reluctant to buy something like these grips without having them in hand first unless from a super reliable seller with a money back guarantee even then I still would probably pass. Just MHO
Jim

Roadster 02 · 12-13-2023, 12:52 PM

The buyer needs some meds!

spangy · 12-14-2023, 07:09 PM

No self respecting German craftsman of the day would ever put his name on these.
Under magnification look at the 'pyramid' design essential to good grips ... shoddy as hell IMO

Click image for larger version

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Pistol · 12-16-2023, 05:44 AM

They look like bad fakes that failed multiple hot tests.

CJS57 · 12-16-2023, 09:25 AM

The fake grips are over $700 now. The hot pin test is still a good tool because it can eliminate older fakes right away. New and better fakes will require other tests.

Roadster 02 · 12-16-2023, 11:37 AM

Man that seller has got to be doing a little jig. This will make his year. The old adage " A fool and his money shall soon be parted" is still viable today.

Eugen · 12-16-2023, 04:09 PM

I'm glad I'm not in the market for such grips. Too high a price to roll the dice to hope to score original bakelite grips. Heck, I'd rather have original walnuts anyway.

Roadster 02 · 12-23-2023, 01:17 PM

$855!! WOW!!! Just WOW!!! I wish I had some of these grips to sell. Heck I think I would take them off a Luger and replace them with wood. Shattuck really hit that one out of the park.

gunnertwo · 12-23-2023, 08:32 PM

Crazy price! How many others have done the grip change to sell for more $$$$$ !!

G2

big open · 03-19-2024, 07:05 PM

CJS57 ----- This discussion about fake Black Widow (B.W.) luger grips and some of the crazy prices being asked for them, made me wonder where such info. is coming from. I looked up the website for N.C. Ordnance Inc. who advertises grip panels for all kinds of hand guns. In their line up of luger B.W. grips they show a very nice pair for $45.00.

I have a byf 41 and a byf 42 luger, one with (the 41) with original B.W. grips and the other (the 42) with original walnut grips. I've given some thought to picking up the $45 set and installing them on the byf 42 luger. I'll never sell ether luger so what could theat hurt?

Eugen · 03-19-2024, 07:45 PM

I've purchased grips from that N.C. Ordinance vendor over the years. No for my Lugers but for an old Iver Johnson 38 S&W and a Colt 1903 32acp and wood gripsfor a Colt N1908. I wanted to preserve vintage oem grips on these shooters. The grips they sell are ok, fit well and are not too expensive. There may be better aftermarket Luger grips out there, but I sure don't know which ones to recommend.

ithacaartist · 03-19-2024, 09:21 PM

Here's the $45 pair. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1029329637

They're cast urethane reproductions. The back sides of BW (and brown) grips will give clues to their originality, but seller does not include a pic that shows the backs in the listing. Misshapen checkering (as in Greg's pic), holes that aren't threaded, and wood grain impressions on the back (e.g., the latter would indicate repros cast from wood grips) are some elementary red flags. If you have them in-hand, the hot pin test easily separates Bakelite from plastic--although not necessarily original from repro.

big open · 03-20-2024, 09:04 PM

itha. ----- Thanks for showing the photo above. I could live with the cast urethane repro. grips on my byf 42 luger since I'd be aware that is all they would be (repro). I'm not interested in what kind of imprint there might be on the back side of the grip panels either. If I were to pick up a pair of the repro grip panels, they would be only for my own private display. I'd still have the original wooden panels that currently reside on the luger and I could reinstall them at any time.

velodog455~ · 03-24-2024, 09:02 AM

Even if you sold the byf 42 pistol, as long as the grips were referenced as reproductions I don't see how anyone could fault you. Of course, selling with the original wood grips should bring more money I would think.

The biggest problem that I see with individuals trying to sell P.08's with plastic grips is that they almost never show the back side of the grips, which is a much more revealing tell as to authenticity, IMHO.
-Bob

big open · 03-24-2024, 05:21 PM

velodog455 ---- Thanks for your comments above. No, I never intend to sell the byf 42 luger with the wooden grips as long as I'm exchanging gasses on this earth. No telling what my kids and/or grand kids might do when I'm no longer doing that. I have a 41 byf luger with what I believe are the original black widow grips. I'll take some photos of the luger and both sides of its grip panels and post them here. I've never given them the "hot pin" test and am very hesitant to do so because I don't want to do anything to the nearly 99% luger that could mar it in any way. I'll post some photos of the 42 byf luger with the wooden grip panels too.

12-12-2023, 07:40 AM	#1
CJS57 User Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 224 Thanks: 0 Thanked 81 Times in 41 Posts	Fake Black Widow Grips? These do not look original to me. Interested in your views. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1022835924

12-14-2023, 07:09 PM	#8
spangy Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 617 Thanks: 3,065 Thanked 1,057 Times in 429 Posts	No self respecting German craftsman of the day would ever put his name on these. Under magnification look at the 'pyramid' design essential to good grips ... shoddy as hell IMO __________________ Whoever said that "money can't buy you happiness" never bought a Luger. WTB - Take Down Lever & Trigger Plate (#90) for an Imperial Artillery.

12-16-2023, 04:09 PM	#12
Eugen User Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Newburgh,IN Posts: 790 Thanks: 394 Thanked 631 Times in 334 Posts	I'm glad I'm not in the market for such grips. Too high a price to roll the dice to hope to score original bakelite grips. Heck, I'd rather have original walnuts anyway. __________________ “God created war so that Americans would learn geography.” ― Mark Twain

03-19-2024, 07:45 PM	#16
Eugen User Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Newburgh,IN Posts: 790 Thanks: 394 Thanked 631 Times in 334 Posts	I've purchased grips from that N.C. Ordinance vendor over the years. No for my Lugers but for an old Iver Johnson 38 S&W and a Colt 1903 32acp and wood gripsfor a Colt N1908. I wanted to preserve vintage oem grips on these shooters. The grips they sell are ok, fit well and are not too expensive. There may be better aftermarket Luger grips out there, but I sure don't know which ones to recommend. __________________ “God created war so that Americans would learn geography.” ― Mark Twain

03-19-2024, 09:21 PM	#17
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,346 Thanks: 7,271 Thanked 2,578 Times in 1,365 Posts	Here's the $45 pair. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1029329637 They're cast urethane reproductions. The back sides of BW (and brown) grips will give clues to their originality, but seller does not include a pic that shows the backs in the listing. Misshapen checkering (as in Greg's pic), holes that aren't threaded, and wood grain impressions on the back (e.g., the latter would indicate repros cast from wood grips) are some elementary red flags. If you have them in-hand, the hot pin test easily separates Bakelite from plastic--although not necessarily original from repro. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

12-12-2023, 09:09 AM	#2
Kiwi User Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Wrong side of the Delaware river Posts: 305 Thanks: 215 Thanked 434 Times in 171 Posts	Current bid $515 if they are not real the seller is going to get some feedback

12-12-2023, 03:05 PM	#3
Roadster 02 User Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Rocky Mountain High Posts: 312 Thanks: 173 Thanked 248 Times in 86 Posts	Holy Moley! 500 bucks for some grips! Just so you can say you have a "black widow" ? And that is a wholly made up term? Wow, some folks have more money than sense.

12-12-2023, 03:12 PM	#4
zinfull Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sonoma County CA Posts: 243 Thanks: 5 Thanked 33 Times in 16 Posts	It getting to be that the sum of the parts are worth more than the whole. But $500 for grips, time to strip my shooters down.

12-12-2023, 10:33 PM	#5
gunnertwo User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Nampa, Idaho Posts: 623 Thanks: 825 Thanked 930 Times in 363 Posts	The buyer should use the "hot pin test" on them. G2

12-16-2023, 01:05 AM	#6
jeb111 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: May 2018 Location: wyoming Posts: 277 Thanks: 712 Thanked 331 Times in 133 Posts	It's my understanding that many reproduction grips are being made of Bakelite so the hot pin test maybe isn't such the reliable test it used to be. Me personally I would be reluctant to buy something like these grips without having them in hand first unless from a super reliable seller with a money back guarantee even then I still would probably pass. Just MHO Jim

12-13-2023, 12:52 PM	#7
Roadster 02 User Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Rocky Mountain High Posts: 312 Thanks: 173 Thanked 248 Times in 86 Posts	The buyer needs some meds!

12-16-2023, 05:44 AM	#9
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 428 Thanks: 448 Thanked 220 Times in 99 Posts	They look like bad fakes that failed multiple hot tests.

12-16-2023, 09:25 AM	#10
CJS57 User Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 224 Thanks: 0 Thanked 81 Times in 41 Posts	The fake grips are over $700 now. The hot pin test is still a good tool because it can eliminate older fakes right away. New and better fakes will require other tests.

12-16-2023, 11:37 AM	#11
Roadster 02 User Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Rocky Mountain High Posts: 312 Thanks: 173 Thanked 248 Times in 86 Posts	Man that seller has got to be doing a little jig. This will make his year. The old adage " A fool and his money shall soon be parted" is still viable today.

12-23-2023, 01:17 PM	#13
Roadster 02 User Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Rocky Mountain High Posts: 312 Thanks: 173 Thanked 248 Times in 86 Posts	$855!! WOW!!! Just WOW!!! I wish I had some of these grips to sell. Heck I think I would take them off a Luger and replace them with wood. Shattuck really hit that one out of the park.

12-23-2023, 08:32 PM	#14
gunnertwo User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Nampa, Idaho Posts: 623 Thanks: 825 Thanked 930 Times in 363 Posts	Crazy price! How many others have done the grip change to sell for more $$$$$ !! G2

03-19-2024, 07:05 PM	#15
big open Banned Join Date: Feb 2024 Location: northwest Montana in a remote area. Posts: 96 Thanks: 0 Thanked 66 Times in 27 Posts	CJS57 ----- This discussion about fake Black Widow (B.W.) luger grips and some of the crazy prices being asked for them, made me wonder where such info. is coming from. I looked up the website for N.C. Ordnance Inc. who advertises grip panels for all kinds of hand guns. In their line up of luger B.W. grips they show a very nice pair for $45.00. I have a byf 41 and a byf 42 luger, one with (the 41) with original B.W. grips and the other (the 42) with original walnut grips. I've given some thought to picking up the $45 set and installing them on the byf 42 luger. I'll never sell ether luger so what could theat hurt?

03-20-2024, 09:04 PM	#18
big open Banned Join Date: Feb 2024 Location: northwest Montana in a remote area. Posts: 96 Thanks: 0 Thanked 66 Times in 27 Posts	itha. ----- Thanks for showing the photo above. I could live with the cast urethane repro. grips on my byf 42 luger since I'd be aware that is all they would be (repro). I'm not interested in what kind of imprint there might be on the back side of the grip panels either. If I were to pick up a pair of the repro grip panels, they would be only for my own private display. I'd still have the original wooden panels that currently reside on the luger and I could reinstall them at any time.

03-24-2024, 09:02 AM	#19
velodog455~ User Join Date: Aug 2023 Posts: 76 Thanks: 18 Thanked 58 Times in 35 Posts	Even if you sold the byf 42 pistol, as long as the grips were referenced as reproductions I don't see how anyone could fault you. Of course, selling with the original wood grips should bring more money I would think. The biggest problem that I see with individuals trying to sell P.08's with plastic grips is that they almost never show the back side of the grips, which is a much more revealing tell as to authenticity, IMHO. -Bob

03-24-2024, 05:21 PM	#20
big open Banned Join Date: Feb 2024 Location: northwest Montana in a remote area. Posts: 96 Thanks: 0 Thanked 66 Times in 27 Posts	velodog455 ---- Thanks for your comments above. No, I never intend to sell the byf 42 luger with the wooden grips as long as I'm exchanging gasses on this earth. No telling what my kids and/or grand kids might do when I'm no longer doing that. I have a 41 byf luger with what I believe are the original black widow grips. I'll take some photos of the luger and both sides of its grip panels and post them here. I've never given them the "hot pin" test and am very hesitant to do so because I don't want to do anything to the nearly 99% luger that could mar it in any way. I'll post some photos of the 42 byf luger with the wooden grip panels too.