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08-17-2017, 09:56 PM | #1 |
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New to Lugers, may have a DWM on my hands?
Need the experts help here!
My grandfather has had this Luger for years, I'm looking to purchase it, but have no clue what it's worth, or really anything about it. All he knows is it's "7mm", which I'm guessing he means 7.65x21 parabellum, and he can't find the magazine. http://imgur.com/a/xIs8m Here are some cell phone pics I was able to grab. Any other details you experts need? |
08-17-2017, 10:31 PM | #2 |
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I made it so you would be notified. Welcome to the forum
Its preferred if you post pictures here It doesn't have the right info - close up of under the barrel - serial number it is likely 30 Luger (7.65mm luger) as it was meant for the US market, as it is marked Germany Magazine looks like it is a WW2 mag? Crown N on the left? Looks in nice shape, although its a shooter, as the stock lug was ground off. At first I was trying to figure out why the color looked funny. Ask if your grandfather did that, or bought it that way. during the 60's, people were told that if you attached a stock it was a "short barreled rifle" and so people ground the stock lugs off Value, around $600 for a 30 luger - if it was 9mm luger then $800 max Ed
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08-17-2017, 10:58 PM | #3 |
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Thank you Ed,
I will get pictures of serial number and under the barrel. Yes it appears to be a crown N on the side. Unfortunately he doesn't remember much these days but will ask, all he remembers was he bought it (or was gifted) it from his father in law back in the day. Any idea on year? |
08-17-2017, 11:38 PM | #4 |
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Depends on serial number, include any letters
1920's is a good guess |
08-19-2017, 11:36 PM | #5 |
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08-20-2017, 08:45 AM | #6 |
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There are a number of questions I'd have about this Luger.
The crowns stamped on the frame and barrel don't look like what you'd find on a DWM Alphabet Commercial (which I think was Ed's assumption). Usually there is a suffix letter there, not a crown stamp. The side plate profile looks unusual, Please photograph the entire pistol left and right, the muzzle from the front and the top toggle train areas. Is there a marking near your thumb in the last photo? Is the receiver slightly proud (in front of) the frame in the front of the pistol near the serial number? Marc
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08-20-2017, 09:09 AM | #7 |
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The marking under his thumb is a import stamping.
The larger crowns look like post-war Suhl commercial proofing.
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03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie |
08-20-2017, 12:43 PM | #8 |
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Good start on the photos !
Photograph the top and back of the toggle and chamber! |
08-20-2017, 02:43 PM | #9 | |
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Quote:
One can't enlarge the photos posted on what ever host server you are using. And eventually the picture links will disappear and this thread will be meaningless.
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03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie |
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08-20-2017, 06:32 PM | #10 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
Will do! Was unaware of that |
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08-20-2017, 07:01 PM | #11 |
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08-20-2017, 10:07 PM | #12 |
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Your stock lug has been ground or filed down by about 1/2.
Even though use of a stock is not legal with this luger, it reduces its value to that of a shooter only. The crown on the frame and the lower crown on the barrel are still a puzzle and not "original" to the luger's manufacture.
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03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie |
08-20-2017, 10:15 PM | #13 | |
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With the crown, I would ask if it was an aftermarket barrel, but that wouldn't explain the frame. |
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08-21-2017, 12:01 AM | #14 | ||
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Quote:
Lugers originally accompanied with a shoulder stock when purchased or issued, including the Navy, Artillery, and Carbine models, can be used with a stock--but only the proper style of original or reproduction stock they would have had when new, e.g Navy gun with Navy stock, Carbine with carbine stock, etc. These are exempted in a list maintained by the BATFE. Quote:
Marc's question concerns possible "proudness" or protrusion of the face of the barrel extension beyond the face of the grip frame. This happens when a mix-master is created by assembling a longer, Old Model receiver atop the shorter, New Model grip frame, a situation where that tenth of an inch really shows up! Yours looks OK to me, though.
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08-21-2017, 11:10 PM | #15 | ||
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Quote:
The ones circled in red correct? Quote:
Thanks for the great post! |
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08-20-2017, 10:22 PM | #16 |
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I found this, "The crown "N" proof was introduced in 1906 as a derivative of the 1893 Proof Law. For commercial gun intended for public sale it was upright and replaced a plethora of various proof house individual proofs."
http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com/1320DWM23.html Looks similar to the N crown on this one |
08-21-2017, 09:01 AM | #17 | |
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Quote:
It is the larger crown, alone- stamped on the frame and the lower curve of the barrel. These two crowns appear to have been stamped after finish as they show bare metal in the stamping- at least they do in these pictures. These are the Puzzle. Better close ups of those crowns, posted on the server here, would be a help to see them more clearly.
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03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie |
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08-22-2017, 02:11 AM | #18 |
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There are several reports of Alphabet Commercials whose letter suffixes are overstamped with crowns, very effectively obliterating the letter. The reason for this overstamping is unknown.
--Dwight |
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08-22-2017, 10:46 AM | #19 |
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Dwight, You are correct. Over the years I've seen several of these that were over stamped in the q,r,s & t alpha commerical range. As I recall, one of the luger books call these "crown" suffix alphas the "Riff" contract. Supposably ordered by a North African terrorist group and never paid for, so just sold thru normal commerical channels. Why suffix was overstamped, is a still a mystry. Perhaps the original serials were already recorded as sold or already duplicated, so had to be overstamped to avoid duplication. TH
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08-22-2017, 03:25 PM | #20 |
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This is the 4th or 5th Luger that I've seen with crowns over stamping the alpha suffix of the serial number. As Tom and Dwight stated, they all seem to be alphabet commercial pistols. I believe that I still have one in the safe and will post pictures when I locate it.
Lyn |
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