Analyze This!

John Sabato · 01-17-2003, 01:26 PM

Here is another guessing game for you guys...

Who among you can identify this model...

Who made it?

What caliber?

What year?

for what market?

and who owns this beauty now? Will the real owner please remain silent until it is guessed.

sorry...no clues...

Thor · 01-17-2003, 01:33 PM

1906 DWM Commercial or American Eagle? I know Ron Wood owns a bunch of these Cherry Lugers!! WHAT A BEAUTY!

John Sabato · 01-17-2003, 02:28 PM

"1906 DWM Commercial" that much is correct...

But Ron Wood doesn't own this one, at least not when I captured this photo...

and you forgot the caliber Thor!

Thor · 01-17-2003, 02:40 PM

9mm by the size of the barrel.

John Sabato · 01-17-2003, 03:19 PM

You're Good Thor!

Guess I will have to come up with something a little more exotic.

John Sabato · 01-17-2003, 04:11 PM

Okay Thor...

Here is an exotic one for you... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

What make?

What Caliber?

Made for who?

Ron Wood · 01-17-2003, 04:39 PM

High Standard HD-Military
.22 cal
Silenced for tunnel rats.

Edward Tinker · 01-17-2003, 05:12 PM

Cool

Dwight Gruber · 01-17-2003, 10:52 PM

Aw, -just- a 1906 Commercial? I was expecting it to be something much more unusual and exotic (was trying my darndest to make Ron's 1903 Commercial out of it...)

--Dwight

MikeP · 01-18-2003, 01:21 AM

Not sure about tunnel rat use-they were part of the conventional units and mostly used general issue stuff which this is not.

I have seen and handled a few of these while in 5th SF. There were not large numbers of these.

They were used in some known examples of prisoner snatches by "project" teams. They were used for other things as well.

Can never say for sure who may or may not have once actually used them.

I had a silenced sten but did not carry it on field operations.

Ron Wood · 01-18-2003, 01:52 AM

I dimly recall an article about tunnel rats using suppressed weapons, but that was some time ago so you may very well be right. Still in all, the thought of popping off a general issue .45 in a two foot diameter tunnel makes me wonder on which end of the gun would the most damage be inflicted?

Lugerdoc · 01-18-2003, 07:39 AM

John, I once shot one of these silenced HDs owned by a retired AF Coronel. He said that it was issued to him in WW2 as part of the OSS. Tom H.

Doug G. · 01-18-2003, 06:21 PM

John, read your private messages or email me.

JohnF · 01-18-2003, 06:37 PM

Can anyone join in the "analyze this" game? If so here's one of the odder items in my own collection. I have doctored the photo to remove markings - although not as skillfully as the Luger on the home page!
http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Whatam1.JPG

Russ · 01-18-2003, 06:51 PM

Looks like an s&s

Lugerdoc · 01-19-2003, 07:54 AM

John F, Your early (wide slide serrations and external trigger bar) Walther model 4 certainly needs a refinish. This is the quality I usually strip for parts. Tom H.

JohnF · 01-19-2003, 10:19 AM

It certainly does Tom. I just picked it up recently but they are pretty rare around here. I'll probably leave it as it is - I don't mind poor condition if it's part of the weapon's history. I think that this one saw service in WW1 as it has an eagle proof as well as the crown/N. I also have one other early Walther - a Model 9 1st series. Here's a pic:
http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/WaltherM9.jpg

John Sabato · 01-20-2003, 10:15 AM

Just an update... The High Standard Model HD military with suppressor were original specified for manufacture by the OSS in WW2, and NO they were not made in lots of numbers.

I know they saw service for many many years for clandestine operations and have been used by our Special Ops and SF folks for the purpose indicated. Francis Gary Powers was carrying one of these when he was shot down in a U-2 Reconnaisance plane over Russia in the '50s. I believe his gun is now being display with parts of that aircraft in a museum in Russia.

I once owned a standard version model HD military (no suppressor) as a young soldier... it was incredibly accurate... I had intended to modify it myself in my young gunsmith days into a reproduction of the one pictured since mine had no historical signifigance at the time... but my young soldiers salary was never able to come up with the necessary $200 NFA tax for manufacturing a suppressor... (long sigh here). I ended up using it as part of a trade for my S&W Model 29 .44 magnum (that I still own) in 1969 or 1970.

Navy · 01-20-2003, 11:31 AM

Suppressed guns are FUN! I have a ruger 10/22 carbine with a Cierner fully suppressed barrel. I affectionately refer to it as "The cat whacker" Using subsonic loads, all you hear is the action cycling and the thump of impact. If I wear a glove and immobilize the bolt, the action does not cycle and it is super quiet. And yes, it is registered; a left-over from my days as a Type 01 with a SOT.

Lugerdoc · 01-21-2003, 10:03 AM

John F, Your eagle marking on the M4 Walther is curious. Can you take a close up photo and post. Most WW1 military accepted M4s will have a crown over a letter acceptance either aft of the ejection port or on the left trigger guard. Tom H.

01-17-2003, 01:26 PM	#1
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Analyze This! Here is another guessing game for you guys... Who among you can identify this model... Who made it? What caliber? What year? for what market? and who owns this beauty now? Will the real owner please remain silent until it is guessed. sorry...no clues... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-17-2003, 01:33 PM	#2
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	1906 DWM Commercial or American Eagle? I know Ron Wood owns a bunch of these Cherry Lugers!! WHAT A BEAUTY! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

01-17-2003, 02:28 PM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	"1906 DWM Commercial" that much is correct... But Ron Wood doesn't own this one, at least not when I captured this photo... and you forgot the caliber Thor! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-17-2003, 02:40 PM	#4
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	9mm by the size of the barrel. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

01-17-2003, 03:19 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	You're Good Thor! Guess I will have to come up with something a little more exotic. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-17-2003, 04:11 PM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Okay Thor... Here is an exotic one for you... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> What make? What Caliber? Made for who? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-17-2003, 04:39 PM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	High Standard HD-Military .22 cal Silenced for tunnel rats. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-17-2003, 05:12 PM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Cool __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-17-2003, 10:52 PM	#9
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Aw, -just- a 1906 Commercial? I was expecting it to be something much more unusual and exotic (was trying my darndest to make Ron's 1903 Commercial out of it...) --Dwight

01-18-2003, 01:21 AM	#10
MikeP User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ILL Posts: 686 Thanks: 36 Thanked 452 Times in 198 Posts	Not sure about tunnel rat use-they were part of the conventional units and mostly used general issue stuff which this is not. I have seen and handled a few of these while in 5th SF. There were not large numbers of these. They were used in some known examples of prisoner snatches by "project" teams. They were used for other things as well. Can never say for sure who may or may not have once actually used them. I had a silenced sten but did not carry it on field operations.

01-18-2003, 01:52 AM	#11
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	I dimly recall an article about tunnel rats using suppressed weapons, but that was some time ago so you may very well be right. Still in all, the thought of popping off a general issue .45 in a two foot diameter tunnel makes me wonder on which end of the gun would the most damage be inflicted? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-18-2003, 07:39 AM	#12
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	John, I once shot one of these silenced HDs owned by a retired AF Coronel. He said that it was issued to him in WW2 as part of the OSS. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

01-18-2003, 06:21 PM	#13
Doug G. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 713 Thanks: 1 Thanked 53 Times in 17 Posts	John, read your private messages or email me. __________________ Suppose you were an idiot.....and suppose you were a member of Congress.....But I repeat myself" ~~ Mark Twain

01-18-2003, 06:37 PM	#14
JohnF User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: UK Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Can anyone join in the "analyze this" game? If so here's one of the odder items in my own collection. I have doctored the photo to remove markings - although not as skillfully as the Luger on the home page! http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Whatam1.JPG

01-18-2003, 06:51 PM	#15
Russ User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Reading, PA. Posts: 628 Thanks: 2 Thanked 38 Times in 10 Posts	Looks like an s&s __________________ Livin the dream!!!!!!!!!!!

01-19-2003, 07:54 AM	#16
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	John F, Your early (wide slide serrations and external trigger bar) Walther model 4 certainly needs a refinish. This is the quality I usually strip for parts. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

01-19-2003, 10:19 AM	#17
JohnF User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: UK Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	It certainly does Tom. I just picked it up recently but they are pretty rare around here. I'll probably leave it as it is - I don't mind poor condition if it's part of the weapon's history. I think that this one saw service in WW1 as it has an eagle proof as well as the crown/N. I also have one other early Walther - a Model 9 1st series. Here's a pic: http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/WaltherM9.jpg

01-20-2003, 10:15 AM	#18
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Just an update... The High Standard Model HD military with suppressor were original specified for manufacture by the OSS in WW2, and NO they were not made in lots of numbers. I know they saw service for many many years for clandestine operations and have been used by our Special Ops and SF folks for the purpose indicated. Francis Gary Powers was carrying one of these when he was shot down in a U-2 Reconnaisance plane over Russia in the '50s. I believe his gun is now being display with parts of that aircraft in a museum in Russia. I once owned a standard version model HD military (no suppressor) as a young soldier... it was incredibly accurate... I had intended to modify it myself in my young gunsmith days into a reproduction of the one pictured since mine had no historical signifigance at the time... but my young soldiers salary was never able to come up with the necessary $200 NFA tax for manufacturing a suppressor... (long sigh here). I ended up using it as part of a trade for my S&W Model 29 .44 magnum (that I still own) in 1969 or 1970. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-20-2003, 11:31 AM	#19
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Suppressed guns are FUN! I have a ruger 10/22 carbine with a Cierner fully suppressed barrel. I affectionately refer to it as "The cat whacker" Using subsonic loads, all you hear is the action cycling and the thump of impact. If I wear a glove and immobilize the bolt, the action does not cycle and it is super quiet. And yes, it is registered; a left-over from my days as a Type 01 with a SOT.

01-21-2003, 10:03 AM	#20
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	John F, Your eagle marking on the M4 Walther is curious. Can you take a close up photo and post. Most WW1 military accepted M4s will have a crown over a letter acceptance either aft of the ejection port or on the left trigger guard. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

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